Chiropractic Healthiness

Question:

<<<What I have called Dr. Badanes on is a few issues. 1.  His chiropractors cannot think their way out of a paper bag  with regards to Jay, and I said it sounds like a generalization. 2.. I have also stated I find he has re-posted an old post about BEST. Especially when nobody, to my understanding, asked for it. AS FAR AS I RECALL, THAT IS ALL I HAVE CALLED HIM ON… Perhaps you can inform me of my so-called dreadful posts.>>> I’m sure they can pull up ‘campaign’ records from somewhere… Chiropractic and other medical research studies can be found on MEDLINE: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ RPG Greyhawk:  http://members.aol.com/emirikol7——-

Response:

<<<I can only speculate but it seems to me that despite your protestations that you are quite insecure about your chosen profession.>>> Heh!  The way you’re going, you had best be secure about your day profession… ] ] Chiropractic and other medical research studies can be found on MEDLINE: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ RPG Greyhawk:  http://members.aol.com/emirikol7——-

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ><<Seems to me that YOUR replies and avoidance of discussing key issues about >chiropractic speaks volumes>> >HA      HA      HA      HA!        Ask some relevant non-rhetorical questions >and we will!   What have ye?  Bringeth your top 10 questions (imitating >Badanes). >Bring your questions about Chiropractic! >Chiropractic and other medical research studies can be found on MEDLINE: >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ >RPG Greyhawk:  http://members.aol.com/emirikol7——-

     He won’t believe your answers anyway because he just wants to bash the profession instead of being enlightened to its paradigm. Patrick V. Suglia http://www.collegeclub.com/~suglia

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ><<<In fact, one wonders on what basis, you could comment on the content of >anything that I’ve said about `chiropractic’ and chiropractors in this >newsgroup. >>>> >Doctor, if I may call you that, on what basis do you comment on the content of >anything regarding Chiropractic. >YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE IN THE SUBJECT, ONLY A HATRED FOR COMPETITION. >Chiropractic and other medical research studies can be found on MEDLINE: >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ >RPG Greyhawk:  http://members.aol.com/emirikol7——-

     Right on, Jay!   Patrick V. Suglia http://www.collegeclub.com/~suglia

Response:

   If memory serves me >correct, HE IS MAKING CLAIMS essentially stating a majority of these >techniques are bogus, NOT ME…. How come you are NOT asking HIM to >"prove it"?

Prove that the techniques are bogus??? How do you go about doing that???? Is not the burden of proof on those who claim that they ARE effective?? If someone says that standing on your head for two hours will cure cancer and I say that it is bunk do you think it reasonable for someone to ask me to prove that it does NOT work?????? See my point?? Since you claim that you do not use ANY of the techniques mentioned, which ones DO you use and why do you think that they are different from any of the other techniques? I think the answer to this question is quite relevant and that the readers would be interested in what an "honest" chiropracter does. >You realize that the ONLY >answer short of debunking his claims is to discredit him. >Can you please tell me where I am trying to discredit him OR YOU?

I believe we have covered this before. Perhaps you missed the posts or failed to read them. >Unfortunately you only serve to discredit yourself. Sound familiar?? >No, it doesn’t.

Not a surprise.  Aloha,  Rich Far better to be uncertain Than to be sure and be wrong Note: Remember to remove the antispamming "NOT" in email address  before sending me email

Response:

> Jim Donaghue DC says: > * In a way, I am glad to see all this "chiropractic lies" and "DC > * vs MD", as they say, even bad publicity is good publicity.. > * Obviously we are stirring up something right. >Is this what they call the chiropractic spin?? Well if you were REALLY >glad about it then you would NOT be confronting ME about my repeated >posts suggesting that it was adversely affecting MY credibility. It >would seem to me that if you really wanted the publicity that you >would just let me go on my merry little way and smile to yourself as >you recognize how much more business I will be drumming up for you >because of all this publicity.

No Rich, I think you are misunderstanding the OLD post.  In fact, those quoted statements were regarding specific titles of threads at the time.  Not my belief on the subject.  Rich, as I stated before, I don’t have a problem with your recent posts and I think YOU know that.  You were asking the students who were making claims to prove it and I agreed with you… I addressed your "credibility" when I stated you were having a, what I called bias, based on the constant slamming on the students or anyone who posted. >But what is the TRUTH Jim? I can only speculate but it seems to me >that despite your protestations that you are quite insecure about your >chosen profession.

Like I said repeatedly, I agree with you when someone makes outrageous claims to back something up.. I call that science.  I thought we were in agreement….  Now it seems to me you are attacking me on something Badanes is talking about..  I will say it ONCE AGAIN, their is a problem with the chiro profession due to a lack of good studies.. OKAY??????  I have never denied that, in fact, I am the one repeating it over and over… I am also NOT the one making ANY CLAIMS, am I???? You attempt to discredit those who may challenge >the chiropractic profession.

When have I ever attempted to discredit you Rich?????  If I remember correctly, you stated we were in agreement on several issues last week.  WHat happened??? Instead of discussing issues such as do >any of the chiropractic techniques really work and where is the >evidence you simply say that you and your patients are happy. Do you >think that this comment is substantive discussion or just blowing the >opposition off??

Actually Rich, I think one of the reasons I have been agreeing with you is because you feel your DC has helped you and is effective…  What I find so interesting is, from what you posted, I seem to be very similar to YOUR chiropractor.  In other words, NOT making outrageous, unsubstantiated claims.  It seems to me I address the same types of cases as YOUR chiropractor…  Now you seem to be doubting the success of chiropractic, when in fact you have been telling me for weeks you had postive results with your low back.  If you responded well, are you now telling me all techniques are invalid???  What changed your mind? OR are you telling me your low back improved due to the placebo effect? >And I disagree with you. I think that the readership is VERY >interested in whether any of these chiropractic techniques is more >than waving your hand over someone (therapeutic touch). You cannot >tell me that you do not think that someone going to a chiropracter >would be interested in a discussion about whether B.E.S.T, meric, >activator, gonstead or any other technique really has any scientific >basis. Or do you just say: Hey, me and my patients are happy. You are >the only one who is not happy so there??

Interesting, IMO, most of the readership wouldn’t know a majority of the techniques if they fell over them.  I don’t utilize a majority of the so called 150 techniques, especially ANY of the ones you just mentioned.  I also have been out of school for 9 years, I don’t spend all my day reading chriropractic studies, I treat patients.  I don’t have a chiropractic library or the time to check on the internet.  I am also not making ANY claims on treatmentEXCEPT, the one claim I am making is it has helped MANY people, INCLUDING YOURSELF.  Some people here are trying to make the point chiros fool everyone, such snake oil salseman….  Are you one of the "suckers" Rich?  making >Do you see a problem here or are you just happy with all this >publicity even if it is all negative and not a single chiropracter has >been able to credibly answer Dr. Badanes articulate criticism of >chiropractics?

I don’t have a problem with all of Dr. Badanes post…  In fact if he spent some time checking his archives, I have agreed with him on several points, such as several of his recommendations on chosing a chiropractor… i.e.  I do not x-ray everyone… I do not talk about the almighty subluxation….   I do not claim to cure cancer/diabetes/rhigormortis…..  I think my posts stand for themselves…  I don’t think you will EVER find a post from me addressing the validity of "the almighty subluxation", in fact, you might find posts of the opposite. >If you don’t answer this post with specificity shall I assume that you >are admitting that chiropraxis is largely based upon whimsical fancy??

Not at all, tell me about your benefits.. >Badanes is your worst enemy.

Yes and no…  IMO he mentions in his how to chose a good chiropractor and offers some good points…  In fact, IMO, it seems he FEELS their are good chiropractors, otherwise, he would be stating "there are no good chiropractors", but when he finds someone who I feel he essentially describes (IOW, ME), based on his list, I am still one of those "bad" chiropractors since I don’t DISPROVE him….That is where I don’t understand why I am getting the heat now..  If memory serves me correct, HE IS MAKING CLAIMS essentially stating a majority of these techniques are bogus, NOT ME…. How come you are NOT asking HIM to "prove it"? A chiropracter who is exposing the >fraudulent practices of your profession.

Who is questioning their are some fraudulent practices????   You realize that the ONLY >answer short of debunking his claims is to discredit him.

Can you please tell me where I am trying to discredit him OR YOU? >Unfortunately you only serve to discredit yourself. Sound familiar??

No, it doesn’t. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Aloha, >Rich >Far better to be uncertain >Than to be sure and be wrong >Note: Remember to remove the antispamming "NOT" in email address > before sending me email

Response:

 Jim Donaghue DC says: > * In a way, I am glad to see all this "chiropractic lies" and "DC > * vs MD", as they say, even bad publicity is good publicity.. > * Obviously we are stirring up something right.

Is this what they call the chiropractic spin?? Well if you were REALLY glad about it then you would NOT be confronting ME about my repeated posts suggesting that it was adversely affecting MY credibility. It would seem to me that if you really wanted the publicity that you would just let me go on my merry little way and smile to yourself as you recognize how much more business I will be drumming up for you because of all this publicity. But what is the TRUTH Jim? I can only speculate but it seems to me that despite your protestations that you are quite insecure about your chosen profession. You attempt to discredit those who may challenge the chiropractic profession. Instead of discussing issues such as do any of the chiropractic techniques really work and where is the evidence you simply say that you and your patients are happy. Do you think that this comment is substantive discussion or just blowing the opposition off?? And I disagree with you. I think that the readership is VERY interested in whether any of these chiropractic techniques is more than waving your hand over someone (therapeutic touch). You cannot tell me that you do not think that someone going to a chiropracter would be interested in a discussion about whether B.E.S.T, meric, activator, gonstead or any other technique really has any scientific basis. Or do you just say: Hey, me and my patients are happy. You are the only one who is not happy so there?? Do you see a problem here or are you just happy with all this publicity even if it is all negative and not a single chiropracter has been able to credibly answer Dr. Badanes articulate criticism of chiropractics? If you don’t answer this post with specificity shall I assume that you are admitting that chiropraxis is largely based upon whimsical fancy?? Badanes is your worst enemy. A chiropracter who is exposing the fraudulent practices of your profession. You realize that the ONLY answer short of debunking his claims is to discredit him. Unfortunately you only serve to discredit yourself. Sound familiar?? Aloha, Rich Far better to be uncertain Than to be sure and be wrong Note: Remember to remove the antispamming "NOT" in email address  before sending me email

Response:

>And YES you owe Badanes an apology. And before you tell the chiro >students about making ad hominem arguments you may want to take a good >look in the mirror. >You did not even have the decency to read his whole post (at least you >say you did not). One must wonder if your claim that he did not answer >your questions in another post whether you also just chose not to read >them. You see if you don’t read the posts you can plead ignorance. >Ignorance seems to run deep in the chiropractic profession. Just bury >your head in the sand, and pretend all is well. >Aloha,

Rich, I don’t know where this is coming from all of a sudden…  I thought we were having a decent discussion…Perhaps I AM misunderstanding what you and Badanes is saying…  Like I said in the past, I am NOT going to waste my time with J. Badanes.  No matter what anyone says, he seems to turn everything around so that WE are the bad guys…  From my understanding, I don’t recall making innuendos, What I was trying to state was, I simply was told by some people on this ng about his past. I then wanted to ask him directly, in a very simple manner on more than one post: a.  Is he a trained DC? B.  Did he work at a chiro college?  If so, what was his reason for leaving? I think that was all.  I believe (and I may be wrong) I asked in a VERY SHORT POST similar to the above A and B.  If I did get an answer, it was most likely in one of the posts that seem to go on and on like the old post he re-posted here the other day.  Frankly, I wasn’t interested in reading the EXTREMELY lengthy post…  To date, NOBODY has said "didn’t you see, he posted your answers here……"  So, sorry, since I didn’t read those lengthy posts, I don’t have an answer and THAT is what I was claiming.  When I then RE-ASKED him again, I did not hear ANYTHING back….  I do not honestly think that is an innuendo.  One could look at this as a   well, I will try and find out for myself without jumping on the bandwagon and ASSUME what everyone else posted was true. I will be the first one to admit I don’t read his posts, because IMO, they are endless and tiresome.  I don’t believe it is a burying my head in the sand, but if you think that, fine.  I am also the first to admit, as I have stated over the past few weeks– especially to you, is one of the problems with this profession is the lack of studies.  I don’t think you can deny my stating this before.  That is why I have told the students to mellow out with the claims until they can prove it.  So, I don’t know why I am now getting slammed with the "prove it" posts, I am NOT claiming anything about chiropractic and it’s effectiveness for health problems.  What I have called Dr. Badanes on is a few issues. 1.  His chiropractors cannot think their way out of a paper bag  with regards to Jay, and I said it sounds like a generalization. 2.. I have also stated I find he has re-posted an old post about BEST. Especially when nobody, to my understanding, asked for it. AS FAR AS I RECALL, THAT IS ALL I HAVE CALLED HIM ON… Perhaps you can inform me of my so-called dreadful posts.

Response:

<<<You see if you don’t read the posts you can plead ignorance.>>> Actually he is blessed, he didn’t have to read all the sarcastic personal attacks. Chiropractic and other medical research studies can be found on MEDLINE: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ RPG Greyhawk:  http://members.aol.com/emirikol7——-

Response:

<<You did not even have the decency to read his whole post>> Most of us have learned to TUNE-OUT your and Badanes’ personal attacks.  If you want your material read, you’d better be civilized about your relevant Chiropractic questions. Chiropractic and other medical research studies can be found on MEDLINE: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ RPG Greyhawk:  http://members.aol.com/emirikol7——-

Response:

<<<You were very careful to not directly accuse him of anything.>>> It’s called tact.  Some people lack it.  Know any that live in your apartment? Chiropractic and other medical research studies can be found on MEDLINE: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ RPG Greyhawk:  http://members.aol.com/emirikol7——-

Response:

<<<Badanes articulate critique of chiropractic are you Jim?>> Articulate does not mean educated.  Simply because he takes 2-3 hours to make a post while he looks up all the words in his latin dictionary and then spellchecks them, does not give him any substance for knowledge about Chiropractic. Are you awed by Badanes’s use of pronouns?  You should be. Chiropractic and other medical research studies can be found on MEDLINE: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ RPG Greyhawk:  http://members.aol.com/emirikol7——-

Response:

<<Seems to me that YOUR replies and avoidance of discussing key issues about chiropractic speaks volumes>> HA      HA      HA      HA!        Ask some relevant non-rhetorical questions and we will!   What have ye?  Bringeth your top 10 questions (imitating Badanes). Bring your questions about Chiropractic! Chiropractic and other medical research studies can be found on MEDLINE: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ RPG Greyhawk:  http://members.aol.com/emirikol7——-

Response:

<<<Come "clean" about his past???? But YOU are not slimy are you Jim?>>> Everyone’s slimy; some more than others.  What of Chiropractic Rich?  What do you know about mechanoreceptors?  What does your education say, or are YOU standing on the backs of giants to reach towards some sick goal? Chiropractic and other medical research studies can be found on MEDLINE: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ RPG Greyhawk:  http://members.aol.com/emirikol7——-

Response:

<<<_I’M_ asking questions, Jim. Remember? It is chiropractors who have replied with ad hominem and libel only. You don’t seem to notice very much, do you? Is it that "chicken" thing again? ;’)>>> Now you’re calling him a CHICKEN?!?!  You call yourself a mature adult?  This is the kind of cant I hear in a BAR!  Keep to the issues Badanes (Dr., if you must). Chiropractic and other medical research studies can be found on MEDLINE: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ RPG Greyhawk:  http://members.aol.com/emirikol7——-

Response:

<<<you don’t like my insights and cogent critiques of the profession very much. So what, I say. What’s it to ya?>>> You don’t have insights, because you know nothing of Chiropractic.  Simply because you looked up some bad review on a single Chiropractic technique, does not make you an expert.  In fact, you’re in the wrong field to have an open mind.  I expect Rich to have a more open mind. You have no ground on which to stand but opinion  when you attempt to bash my profession.   Chiropractic and other medical research studies can be found on MEDLINE: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ RPG Greyhawk:  http://members.aol.com/emirikol7——-

Response:

 * Jim Donoghue, Doctor of Chiropractic:  * Not only that, it seems whenever someone asks Dr. Badanes questions,  * he seems to not respond or disappear from the active discussion  * OR have someone else answer for him. <<You continue to be WAY off base with your remarks about me, jim; I daresay out-of-line. The last time you responded in such a sickening and slimy fashion, I wrote the following appended post. Note the date, Jim. You should already "know-better." Once again, the Badanes is avoiding answering the question and moving back to his defensable personal attacks. Chiropractic and other medical research studies can be found on MEDLINE: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ RPG Greyhawk:  http://members.aol.com/emirikol7——-

Response:

<<< You’ve got "confidence." This huffing and puffing of yours is just your way of assuring me and everyone else. >>> Your personal attacks are a great way to show your ignorance of the subjects at hand.  Speak of the issues, not of individuals. You are a Chirobasher and a bad friend, but welcome anyway. <<<. You don’t care what I think about you or `chiropractic.’>>> Is your opinion an informed one or simply an attack? Chiropractic and other medical research studies can be found on MEDLINE: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ RPG Greyhawk:  http://members.aol.com/emirikol7——-

Response:

<<Can you be this stupid?>> Nice.  Really nice. Chiropractic and other medical research studies can be found on MEDLINE: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ RPG Greyhawk:  http://members.aol.com/emirikol7——-

Response:

<<<In fact, one wonders on what basis, you could comment on the content of anything that I’ve said about `chiropractic’ and chiropractors in this newsgroup. >>>> Doctor, if I may call you that, on what basis do you comment on the content of anything regarding Chiropractic. YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE IN THE SUBJECT, ONLY A HATRED FOR COMPETITION. Chiropractic and other medical research studies can be found on MEDLINE: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ RPG Greyhawk:  http://members.aol.com/emirikol7——-

Response:

<<<it is unlikely that you could make any pertinent contributions or  valid criticisms of anything that I’ve said or might say anyway>> What GOD COMPLEX is this?  Heh! Chiropractic and other medical research studies can be found on MEDLINE: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/PubMed/ RPG Greyhawk:  http://members.aol.com/emirikol7——-

Response:

 * Jim Donoghue,, Chiropractor:  * Like I said, I am not going to get into a debate about some BEST  * technique, since I do not have experience in the topic. Well, that’s a good thing then, Jim. This is especially true since, my post "B.E.S.T = `The R.E.S.T’" is not really about B.E.S.T [chiropractic] Technique anyway. And of course, since you have no experience with or knowledge of the Chiropractic Technique Spectacle, then it is unlikely that you could make any pertinent contributions or  valid criticisms of anything that I’ve said or might say anyway. In fact, one wonders on what basis, you could comment on the content of anything that I’ve said about `chiropractic’ and chiropractors in this newsgroup. I see that you don’t like it, of course… but you apparently don’t even know what it is that I’ve said. This is wild.  * I am also not going to go on trying to protect my little world,  * because John, unlike you, I have enough confidence to say it  * doesn’t matter what the big, bad John Badanes says. Yes, Jim. You have exactly the amount of "confidence" needed to literally tell me it "doesn’t matter what the big, bad John Badanes says." hehehe. I suspect that you care considerably more than this response would indicate. Referring to me as "Big, bad John Badanes" does suggest that you feel small.  It barely gets more transparent and compensatory. It’s always interesting and notable when someone is SO "confident" that they are compelled to state this   * You mean nothing to my life. Why, of course I don’t, Jim. Whatever you say. This is becoming more and more credible… every time you say it.   * I am not interested in jumping into a heated debate about my   * profession.  I like it, it works for my patients and EVERYONE is   * happy, with the exception of you.  So, it doesn’t matter to me… Of course it doesn’t matter to you, Jim. What could anything that I say about `chiropractic’ and chiropractors matter to you? `Chiropractic’ works for everyone BUT me.. and you just wanted to tell me that ;’)  * I am not one of the students here trying to show the world about  * this profession, I am not here trying to improve my stature in  * the health care world….  So, in other words save your breath. hehehehe. Of COURSE, Jim. You’ve got "confidence." This huffing and puffing of yours is just your way of assuring me and everyone else. Very impressive  * I have NEVER done anything "slimy" here in these discussions, I  * am not wasting my time with your petty "innuendos" as you claim. Well, I disagree, Jim. And, I’ve already explained why, too.  * Here’s a news flash John, I am not after you.  I couldn’t care  * less what you think about chiropractic or me. Ah yes.. again. Of _COURSE_, Jim.. whatever you say. You don’t care what I think about you or `chiropractic.’  * You might act like the "one who knows all" when it comes to  * chiropractic, (BTW, that’s my OPINION — I do think I am allowed  * one of those here) fine. Yes, Jim. But you seem quite focused on your perception that I’m "one who knows all." Even so, you don’t feel threatened by anything that I say and you don’t care what I think about you or `chiropractic.’ Is this what you’re trying to say?  * If you are looking for an apology from me, FORGET IT!  I have  * not made ANY accusations about you, EVER. hehehehe. That’s OK, Jim. I see you are hopelessly.. er, "confident." YOU will not hear from me again. I don’t want to "mix-you-up."  * If you want to "come clean" about your past, GREAT! You see, Jim. What is this business about "coming clean?" Perhaps you need to look-up the word "innuendo." Really, you should be ashamed of yourself. Now, _I_ think this is "slimy." You say you haven’t accused me of anything. Can you be this stupid? Dr Badanes [TEO.]

Response:

>I certainly hope YOUR feelings aren’t hurt John.  If you want to "come >clean" about your past, GREAT!  I’m sure you would have an audience… >Jim

Come "clean" about his past???? But YOU are not slimy are you Jim? YOU are not making innuendos are you Jim? You are not concerned about Badanes articulate critique of chiropraxis are you Jim? Seems to me that YOUR replies and avoidance of discussing key issues about chiropraxis speaks volumes about YOUR insecurity (which you clearly deny) about your profession. If you REALLY did not care about the Big Bad Badanes then you would NOT have made all these innuendos about his character. You were very careful to not directly accuse him of anything. But you were NOT so careful to disguise what your nefarious intent was. Shame on you. And YES you owe Badanes an apology. And before you tell the chiro students about making ad hominem arguments you may want to take a good look in the mirror. You did not even have the decency to read his whole post (at least you say you did not). One must wonder if your claim that he did not answer your questions in another post whether you also just chose not to read them. You see if you don’t read the posts you can plead ignorance. Ignorance seems to run deep in the chiropractic profession. Just bury your head in the sand, and pretend all is well. Aloha, Rich Far better to be uncertain Than to be sure and be wrong Note: Remember to remove the antispamming "NOT" in email address  before sending me email

Response:

writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> * Jim Donoghue, Chiropractor: > * Not only that, it seems whenever someone asks Dr. Badanes questions, > * he seems to not respond or disappear from the active discussion > * OR have someone else answer for him. >You continue to be WAY off base with your remarks about me, Jim; >I daresay out-of-line. The last time you responded in such a >sickening and slimy fashion, I wrote the following appended post. >Note the date, Jim. You should already "know-better." >I expect an apology from you for continuing to spread innuendo >and rumor about my background and motivations for participating >here.. as if that had anything to do with trouble in the Chiropractic >Byzantium or your feeble efforts to guard and protect that tiny >treasure-box containing your precious Chiropraxis. >Dr Badanes

Long, apparent rhetorical speech snipped, unread. Look John, Like I said, I am not going to get into a debate about some BEST technique, since I do not have experience in the topic.  I am also not going to go on trying to protect my little world, because John, unlike you, I have enough confidence to say it doesn’t matter what the big, bad John Badanes says.   You mean nothing to my life.  I was trying to Like I said, and even according to my posts in the RECENT past (unlike saving old post from sometime in the past year), I am not interested in jumping into a heated debate about my profession.  I like it, it works for my patients and EVERYONE is happy, with the exception of you.  So, it doesn’t matter to me…  I am not one of the students here trying to show the world about this profession, I am not here trying to improve my stature in the health care world….  So, in other words save your breath. I have NEVER done anything "slimy" here in these discussions, I am not wasting my time with your petty "innuendos" as you claim.  In fact, IT WAS ME who was trying to clean up this topic — to avoid the insults, etc…  Then you joined in, and I will continue not to insult or create "innuendos". 1. You, in fact brought up B.E.S.T. with a post from the past.   2.  When you brought up this crap months ago, IT WAS ME, in fact who was TRYING to stop the innuendos about YOU.  If you recall, other DC’s were the ones saying crap about your past, and when you asked me my opinion about BEST, I decided to attempt to find out the facts — straight from the horse’s mouth, as they say — by DIRECTLY ASKING YOU about your past…  You gave some bullshit answer with something like "well, you have already made up your mind about me, so it doesn’t matter", and the answer was NOT resolved.  In fact, I then got 3 or 4 emails from people who stated they were your friends (of course with the anonymous email accounts, typical) saying I would never hear it from you directly.  Then I did not hear you on this newsgroup again until recently.  Period.  Therefore, MY LOGIC is you did not answer my questions directly regarding your past careers…   Here’s a news flash John, I am not after you.  I couldn’t care less what you think about chiropractic or me.  You might act like the "one who knows all" when it comes to chiropractic, (BTW, that’s my OPINION — I do think I am allowed one of those here) fine.  If you are looking for an apology from me, FORGET IT!  I have not made ANY accusations about you, EVER.  Your motivations are useless to me.  In other words, go back to re-reading your archives of all petty posts you have been involved with over the years..  Perhaps you would do better with Jay in private email. I certainly hope YOUR feelings aren’t hurt John.  If you want to "come clean" about your past, GREAT!  I’m sure you would have an audience… Jim

Response:

 * Jim Donoghue, Chiropractor:  * Not only that, it seems whenever someone asks Dr. Badanes questions,  * he seems to not respond or disappear from the active discussion  * OR have someone else answer for him. You continue to be WAY off base with your remarks about me, Jim; I daresay out-of-line. The last time you responded in such a sickening and slimy fashion, I wrote the following appended post. Note the date, Jim. You should already "know-better." I expect an apology from you for continuing to spread innuendo and rumor about my background and motivations for participating here.. as if that had anything to do with trouble in the Chiropractic Byzantium or your feeble efforts to guard and protect that tiny treasure-box containing your precious Chiropraxis. Dr Badanes [TEO.] Newsgroups: misc.health.alternative [chiropractic B.E.S.T. practitioner story deleted]  * Jim Donoghue, Chiropractor:  * This is one particular case where I am in complete agreement with  * "Dr.  Badanes".  For starters, I typically disagree with "John",  * especially with his — I am THE AUTHORITY about chiropractic —  * belief system, but with this scenario listed above, I have to  * completely agree!!!! This is NONSENSE! I regret that my posting has made you feel so small, Jim. It must have been something I said. If so, you are going to have to state specifically _what_ those things are, and, _what_ your objections are… not "why" you’re so bothered and confused. I presume you’re upset because of your investment in Chiropraxis; you don’t like my insights and cogent critiques of the profession very much. So what, I say. What’s it to ya? It certainly hasn’t been uncommon for chiropractors to vigorously protest my posts and noisily reply with their ad hominem "spears and arrows" informed only by their frustration at not being able to competently address what I’ve described. In fact, I can count on one hand the posts from chiropractors that even attempted to grapple with the content and implications of what I’ve said about Chiropraxis in the past five to six years of writing on the internet. "Butt" hey. And so, if you want to get-on with it, you’ll have to do CONSIDERABLY more than feebly bitch and moan about my "attitude" and/or "motives." This is simply pathetic, Jim, especially in view of the many real issues I continue to raise about chiropractors and `chiropractic.’ I will pretend for now that you are a notch above your imbecilic colleagues who are currently contributing the usual chiropractoid "oinks" related The Evil Dr Badanes. And so, since you agree that the B.E.S.T. (chiropractic) practitioner in the deleted "Run for you life" story is an example of "nonsense," I’d like to hear _what_ you find so objectionable about what he does. It’s a good place to start. In fact, if you WANT to talk further, answer the questions I asked chiropractor Cunningham in my post in which he _also_ asserts that B.E.S.T. is "crap." I’m particularly interested in what’s NOT `chiropractic’ about this particular chiropractic method and if you think that billing for it constitutes a form of insurance fraud. IOW, do you think that billing for "NONSENSE" (to use your term) is appropriate? Is there anything about this that someone considering "Giving chiropractic a chance" should know about? What would that be, in your opinion? Then you’ll be sure to tell me in what way this Chirodigm differs from the other 150 or so name-brand conceptual constructs euphemistically called Techniques by the chiropractors who use them. I wouldn’t want you to think that I’m the ONLY "authority" on the subject of Chiropraxis ;’)  Say something "authoritative" about the chiropractic spectacle, Jim. It’s your chance to strut your stuff.  * Let’s get back to what I feel is some important issues…  First,  * approximately a year ago, J. Badanes would sporatically place on  * this newsgroup his personal beliefs on different types of  * chiropractic, no matter if anyone was interested or not…  This  * ALWAYS  bring up this thread of bashing DC’s vs. MD’s…. You sound a bit incoherent here, Jim. Importantly, you said you want to talk about "issues," yet you don’t state even one. Reading ahead, I don’t see any on the horizon, either. But, I’ll be patient for now. Maybe something more than ad hominem and innuendo will emerge. Let’s see.  * It was brought up by a DC, I am not sure who, but brought to  * the attention of this group that John Badanes was a disgruntled  * chiro who was very unsucssessful in practice, then went on to  * teach (I believe at either Life West or Palmer West) and was  * terminated due to conflicts with the school. Whoa…"Doctaah."  Remember what I said about ad hominem? Was there something you didn’t understand?  Well this (technically) libelous story is a perfect example. You tell ME what kind of "disgruntled chiro" would publish this sort of crap about me UNLESS they had been made to feel SO "tiny" or threatened by something I’ve written, that they felt compelled to discredit me personally and professionally with this sort of BS. You aappreciate that this IS bull-shit, don’t you, Doctor? Shame on you for participating. Are you always so ready to join lynch-mobs and witchhunts? Do you notice any relationship between this kind of behavior and that of any run-of-the-mill cult? Just asking   * Now, I am not one to take ANYTHING on the net as fact, and when   * this was brought up, I asked on this newsgroup to John Badanes   * if this was indeed true, and if not to set the record straight…   * I never recevied a reply. Baloney. You say you don’t "take ANYTHING on the net as fact." Yet you suggest that it must be true because "[You] never received a reply." This is why I’ve placed you only a notch about your cretinous, bellowing colleagues. It appears that you also have a little trouble thinking your way out of a paper bag. Sorry, Jim, but you appear to be clueless fellow in that you really don’t see that you are "truly afloat on a tub of pigs." Let me suggest that you would LIKE to believe these stories about me because you could then ignorantly and uncritically go about your business pretending that I only say the things I do because I’m angry. You may be disappointed to hear that this is isn’t true. I’m at home right now playing with my kids, and I don’t even have any, if you get my drift. But, I _do_ find this sort of libelous ad hominem reprehensible and disgusting. Now, I want to know from you why you do NOT. Do you see the problem yet?   * I then asked why is John Badanes such a "chiropractic basher"??   * No reply. It was then brought up that he was involved with S.   * Barett(sp?) and Quackwatch, and I asked on this NG, if THAT was   * true?  No reply. Again, you invoke this "no reply" as though it provided evidence for what you already needed to believe. Can’t you quickly think of about five other considerably more credible reasons why a reasonable person wouldn’t reply to horseshit?  Why, I can, Jim. For example, I do recall that some time ago, an extremely small person was anonymously forwarding stuff I had written on healthfraud-discuss to Tinyville, MHA. There was no good reason to get involved with this apparently disturbed person or those who I heard actually responded to me as though I had posted them. And, I was busy with other stuff at that time, anyways. Does this sort of thing "count" for `two out of five,’ for example? Incidentally, I regularly read and occasionally write to the newsgroup you reference above. (It’s called "healthfraud," BTW. Quackwatch is a website, or something, run by Steve Barrett, MD that I visited once about six months ago.) I don’t recall any contributions from you on healthfraud, never mind a question about me. I’m pretty sure I would have seen it. It wasn’t related to any of that latent McCarthyism you’re starting to exhibit, now was it?   * It APPEARS that John Badanes has nothing positive to say about   * this profession, and that may be his opinion, but why John?? I don’t think I could have been MORE clear about what I’ve said. You just have to read what I wrote, Jim. If even half of what I say about `chiropractic’ and chiropractors is true, then I could appreciate why you are so resistant to understanding even the simplest things I’ve written. But, I see that you might be like a person with a chicken on his head who keeps on saying, "What chicken?" Didn’t my story about the naked man with antlers I just posted a couple of days ago make any sense to you? Apparently not. Or, hey… maybe you didn’t SEE it :-0  Anyway, I’ll keep knocking, Jim. When there’s someone home, just open the door. OK?   * It seems every time your motives are questioned, there seems   * to be a sudden "disappearance" from John Badandes on this   * newsgroup, and the anonymous "chiropractors are quacks" thread   * now (I am not implying they are the same people!). Well, of COURSE you’re implying this, Jim. The content of every part of your post suggests that I’m somehow being dishonest, sneaky, and so evasive that I "disappear" only to later haunt MHA in the character of, who is it, "jusme1234." hehehe. Well, sit-on-it, Jim. Is that what you need to hear?  It’s a conspiracy, donchano!  * John, again, please answer the above questions, so we can  * understand where you are coming from. Er… Who’s "we," Jim?  hehehe. Listen. You don’t NEED to know "where I’m coming from" (DUDE). I’ve been pretty darned articulate on the subjects I’ve discussed. That’s what you should be addressing.  Instead, like the chiropractors before you who have who have stepped up the plate to hit-a-homer for Chiropraxis, you dwell on the possibility … read more »

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