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chiropractic education
Question:
Rex, What is your specific definition of a "quack?" What is the criteria you personally use to determine who is, and who isn’t, a "quack?" Dennis
>snip<
This could push the quacks out of all the healing arts. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Thanks, >Rex Harrill
Response:
Tremendous post—the sort of thing that makes the Internet so valuable. Supposedly, the first hand calculators back in the early 70’s cost many bucks. Is someone working on a home model electroencephaloneuromentimpograph? If not, why? We all need an inexpensive device that can help us judge the health gain—or loss—of anything we do, or consume, in our lives. This could push the quacks out of all the healing arts. Thanks, Rex Harrill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > writes: > >>Steve, > >>Sure much has been LEARNED since the green books were written, but who got > >>more of the worst of the worst cases well than Dr. B.J. Palmer? Just > >>because people LEARN or gain educated intelligence does not mean that the > >>new thoughts are better then the old thoughts. In fact sometimes old > >>knowledge baffles "modern day scholars." (an example would be the > construction > >>of the pyramids) > Thanks. Anyway, as a student at Palmer, I think I am qualified to > discuss BJ. Following your line of logic, just because BJ (but moreso > chiropractic as a whole) was ahead of its time, and still is, does not > necessarily mean that the NEW ideas are not valid. If you fail to adapt, > then > you will not survive. If chiropractic was exactly the same as it was around > BJ’s time, none of us would be around. I am afraid that somewhere along the > way you developed some serious misconceptions about BJ Palmer. I don’t know > if > you went to PCC or not, but these ideas are a little more dogmatic than most > DCs’. Steve > > My simple question is how do you know that out of all the > >chiropractors that Dr. BJ Palmer got the "worst of the worst" better? > >I have never been taught this and I assume this was something told to > >you to help you believe in the dogmatic views of BJ. > >Brad Olson > >Chiropractic Intern > Brad and Steve, > I have spoken to many P.C.C. graduates. Unfortunately, "specific > chiropractic" is barely taught at P.C.C. We will have our lifetimes to > gain knowledge. Some of this education we will discard because it did not > help us accomplish our tasks. You both being students have a great deal of > experience and education to yet gain. I was a "Palmer package" chiropractor… > [snip to end]
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: >>Steve, >>Sure much has been LEARNED since the green books were written, but who got >>more of the worst of the worst cases well than Dr. B.J. Palmer? Just >>because people LEARN or gain educated intelligence does not mean that the >>new thoughts are better then the old thoughts. In fact sometimes old >>knowledge baffles "modern day scholars." (an example would be the construction >>of the pyramids) > Thanks. Anyway, as a student at Palmer, I think I am qualified to > discuss BJ. Following your line of logic, just because BJ (but moreso > chiropractic as a whole) was ahead of its time, and still is, does not > necessarily mean that the NEW ideas are not valid. If you fail to adapt, then > you will not survive. If chiropractic was exactly the same as it was around > BJ’s time, none of us would be around. I am afraid that somewhere along the > way you developed some serious misconceptions about BJ Palmer. I don’t know if > you went to PCC or not, but these ideas are a little more dogmatic than most > DCs’. Steve > My simple question is how do you know that out of all the >chiropractors that Dr. BJ Palmer got the "worst of the worst" better? >I have never been taught this and I assume this was something told to >you to help you believe in the dogmatic views of BJ. >Brad Olson >Chiropractic Intern
Brad and Steve, I have spoken to many P.C.C. graduates. Unfortunately, "specific chiropractic" is barely taught at P.C.C. We will have our lifetimes to gain knowledge. Some of this education we will discard because it did not help us accomplish our tasks. You both being students have a great deal of experience and education to yet gain. I was a "Palmer package" chiropractor for years. I helped many patients with headaches, back pain etc. Occasionally, I would see a "miracle." This was the only frustration in my practice. I was "high volume" & successful, but I always was asking myself, "Where were all the Harvey Lillards?" When I started reading the Green Books, I was amazed by how far ahead of his time B.J. was. In fact in many ways, we still have not caught up to him. I was also frightened that most of the techniques I was using in my office was pre 1924 chiropractic. This being true, how can we expect to move ahead, if the profession has not yet even caught up with Dr. Palmer. In the back of volume 18, he talks about the 5,000 case study. In this study 5,000 of the worst of the worst cases got well from "specific chiropractic" (then termed H.I.O) These are only some of the patients that got well. In Dr. Palmer’s 60 years in Chiropractic, he was responsible for the development of hundreds of different procedures. (many of these procedures are still used in chiropractic schools and offices today. Yet, from when the B.J. Palmer research clinic was opened until B.J. passed away (approximately 40 years) B.J. still stuck with the H.I.O. principle. It was good enough for him and his patients for all of those years. He simply had thrown out all of the earlier techniques and any new ones that came along because they did not get a sick person well as quickly as H.I.O. How did he figure this out? B.J. had constructed an instrument that cost nearly $100,000.00 by time the instrument was complete. This intrument called the electroencephaloneuromentimpograph traced the mental impulse from brain cell to tissue cell. He was able to scientifically prove which methods would increase, decrease or do nothing to the mental impulse. No chiropractors that I know of have ever made an instrument that accomplishes this same task. H.I.O., which he eventually changed the name to specific chiropractic always got the worst of the worst cases well in the shortest amount of time. All Chiropractic students should be required to read about the research that B.J. did in Germany just prior to World War 2. That research which was conducted in the worlds finest and most respected facility changed B.J.s thinking on what a subluxation is and what it is not for the rest of his life. Since changing my practice to specific chiropractic, I see people regaining there vision & hearing all of the time. We have patients that do not need to take insulin or Asthma medication any longer. The list goes on and on. I originally got into chiropractic to get sick people well. I no longer see this occasionally I see this daily. I do not expect either of you to accept what Dr. Palmer said in full faith. I would hope that you do not accept what your instructors say in full faith. You need to do your own research to see what works best. For me and my patients, reading the Green Books and learning the "Palmer Procedure" (Upper Cervical Specific) was the greatest move I had ever made. The following quote is taken from the Preface of Stephenson’s textbook: THE CHIROPRACTIC TEXTBOOK "There is a principle which is a bar against information which is proof against all argument and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is condemnation before investigation" Spencer
Response:
>Steve, >Sure much has been LEARNED since the green books were written, but who got >more of the worst of the worst cases well than Dr. B.J. Palmer? Just >because people LEARN or gain educated intelligence does not mean that the >new thoughts are better then the old thoughts. In fact sometimes old >knowledge baffles "modern day scholars." (an example would be the construction >of the pyramids)
My simple question is how do you know that out of all the chiropractors that Dr. BJ Palmer got the "worst of the worst" better? I have never been taught this and I assume this was something told to you to help you believe in the dogmatic views of BJ. Brad Olson Chiropractic Intern
Response:
>>Steve, >Sure much has been LEARNED since the green books were written, but who got >more of the worst of the worst cases well than Dr. B.J. Palmer? Just >because people LEARN or gain educated intelligence does not mean that the >new thoughts are better then the old thoughts. In fact sometimes old >knowledge baffles "modern day scholars." (an example would be the construction >of the pyramids)
Thanks. Anyway, as a student at Palmer, I think I am qualified to discuss BJ. Following your line of logic, just because BJ (but moreso chiropractic as a whole) was ahead of its time, and still is, does not necessarily mean that the NEW ideas are not valid. If you fail to adapt, then you will not survive. If chiropractic was exactly the same as it was around BJ’s time, none of us would be around. I am afraid that somewhere along the way you developed some serious misconceptions about BJ Palmer. I don’t know if you went to PCC or not, but these ideas are a little more dogmatic than most DCs’. Steve – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> My simple question is how do you know that out of all the >chiropractors that Dr. BJ Palmer got the "worst of the worst" better? >I have never been taught this and I assume this was something told to >you to help you believe in the dogmatic views of BJ. >Brad Olson >Chiropractic Intern
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: >>x-no-archive: yes >>>Before you go to a "mixer" school that has nothing to do with Chiropractic, >>>I suggest you start reading some of the 40 volumes of books that Dr. B.J. >>>Palmer (The Developer of Chiropractic) wrote. I suggest that you pay close >>>attention to volume 18 (THE SUBLUXATION SPECIFIC, THE ADJUSTMENT SPECIFIC). >>>If you want to do many "treatments" become a D.O. or an M.D. If you want >>>to correct CAUSES then learn what Dr. B.J. Palmer taught. He got the worst of >>>the worst cases well. Some of these people included Dr. Mayo’s wife >>>(of the Mayo clinic). In my facility I have gone through extreme measures >>>to try and duplicate that which Dr. Palmer did in his world renowned research >>>clinic. >>>I hope you really think about what I have said. I honestly believe it will >>>save you years of frustration. Please view http://www.BrainStemDr.com for >>>more information. >> These views are based on a "straight" chiropractic philosophy. >>And it is typical of how less than 15% of all D.C.’s practice. The >>other 85% are much more willing to embrace sound scientific >>principals. >> If it is physiologically sound, then IMO, it is legit >>chiropractic. I am not interested in holding onto any of the mysticism >>of the old days. That’s the stuff that got chiropractic into hot water >>in the first place. >>Backcrkr > I fully agree with Backcrkr. A now small portion of our >profession refuses to view what we have learned with valid scientific >research and holds on to the dogmatic views that helped our profession >survive 100 years ago. >Brad Olson >Chiropractic Intern > Agreed! While the Green Books certainly are an important resource when > considering the history and especially the development of chiropractic ideas, I > wouldn’t consider them the be-all-end-all of chiropractic. They are worth > reading, definitely, but a lot has been learned since then! Steve
Steve, Sure much has been LEARNED since the green books were written, but who got more of the worst of the worst cases well than Dr. B.J. Palmer? Just because people LEARN or gain educated intelligence does not mean that the new thoughts are better then the old thoughts. In fact sometimes old knowledge baffles "modern day scholars." (an example would be the construction of the pyramids)
Response:
>>What "helped our profession survive the first 100 years" had nothing to do >with what the "mixer" schools teach. Dr. B.J. Palmer took this profession >from one patient (Harvey Lillard), to the largest non drug healing profession >in the world. He took the scientific method to the most extreme degreee. >If chiropractors and chiropractic students would read the research that >Dr. Palmer conducted and did not listen to the lies and misinformation that is >being told in our "schools" then our profession could move forward. >It is time to read the volumes of books and research that Dr. Palmer >published. Why do you want to live a boring & wasted life thinking >Chiropractic is only good for back pain?
Try looking at what Dr. BJ’s research looks like compared to what is accepted as research today. BJ made great strides in chiropractic, but his research abilities were honestly not so great. Very few studies were controlled, and many variables were being manipulated at once. He did great things for chiropractic, certainly, but I wouldn’t call BJ a great researcher, although he did some great clinical/scientific developments. If you’d like to fins out REAL info on BJ’s work try contacting the department of research at Palmer College of Chiropractic. We are currently working on scanning all of BJ’s clinical records onto a computer file. Someone there will certainly discuss, at length, the merits as well as the drawbacks of BJ’s work. Try getting ahold of Drs. Killinger, Henderson, or Azad for more info. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> First thing is that it was not BJ who cured Harvey Lillard but >it was his father DD. I’m sure that was just a mistake on your part. >Second, we have to start becoming part of the healthcare system in >this country if we want to survive. That means that we have to stop >following the faulty logic that BJ and others from his day came up >with. I don’t advocate using chiropractic as only treating back pain. >I think it should be used for all aspects of the neuromusculoskeleton. >It would be great if we all could survive with a cash practice, but >that is no longer a reality in this day and age of managed care. The >patients of the day are smarter than most give credit to and they can >tell if you are just giving them a "snowjob" to help line your own >pockets. The supposed "lies and misinformations" that you mention are >all backed up by research and many of BJ’s theories have now been >refuted with new research, because of the advancement of new >techniques.
In fact, BJ himself refuted a lot of his earlier work. This is one of the qualities of a true developer. Steve Agocs – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> BJ was a good man. He strongly believed in his cause and we >must all thank him for helping chiropractic survive. But, he was also >a wonderful dictator and businessman. I’m sure you remember how he >used to change his techniques and you were considered a "mixer" if you >weren’t doing what he was doing. He also managed to make a ton of >money by leasing his neurocalometer to his colleagues. It is time we >start being responsible healthcare deliverers and stop following the >dogmatic views of one person. >Brad Olson >Chiropractic Intern
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->x-no-archive: yes >>Before you go to a "mixer" school that has nothing to do with Chiropractic, >>I suggest you start reading some of the 40 volumes of books that Dr. B.J. >>Palmer (The Developer of Chiropractic) wrote. I suggest that you pay close >>attention to volume 18 (THE SUBLUXATION SPECIFIC, THE ADJUSTMENT SPECIFIC). >>If you want to do many "treatments" become a D.O. or an M.D. If you want >>to correct CAUSES then learn what Dr. B.J. Palmer taught. He got the worst of >>the worst cases well. Some of these people included Dr. Mayo’s wife >>(of the Mayo clinic). In my facility I have gone through extreme measures >>to try and duplicate that which Dr. Palmer did in his world renowned research >>clinic. >>I hope you really think about what I have said. I honestly believe it will >>save you years of frustration. Please view http://www.BrainStemDr.com for >>more information. > These views are based on a "straight" chiropractic philosophy. >And it is typical of how less than 15% of all D.C.’s practice. The >other 85% are much more willing to embrace sound scientific >principals. > If it is physiologically sound, then IMO, it is legit >chiropractic. I am not interested in holding onto any of the mysticism >of the old days. That’s the stuff that got chiropractic into hot water >in the first place. >Backcrkr > I fully agree with Backcrkr. A now small portion of our >profession refuses to view what we have learned with valid scientific >research and holds on to the dogmatic views that helped our profession >survive 100 years ago. >Brad Olson >Chiropractic Intern
Agreed! While the Green Books certainly are an important resource when considering the history and especially the development of chiropractic ideas, I wouldn’t consider them the be-all-end-all of chiropractic. They are worth reading, definitely, but a lot has been learned since then! Steve
Response:
>What "helped our profession survive the first 100 years" had nothing to do >with what the "mixer" schools teach. Dr. B.J. Palmer took this profession >from one patient (Harvey Lillard), to the largest non drug healing profession >in the world. He took the scientific method to the most extreme degreee. >If chiropractors and chiropractic students would read the research that >Dr. Palmer conducted and did not listen to the lies and misinformation that is >being told in our "schools" then our profession could move forward. >It is time to read the volumes of books and research that Dr. Palmer >published. Why do you want to live a boring & wasted life thinking >Chiropractic is only good for back pain?
First thing is that it was not BJ who cured Harvey Lillard but it was his father DD. I’m sure that was just a mistake on your part. Second, we have to start becoming part of the healthcare system in this country if we want to survive. That means that we have to stop following the faulty logic that BJ and others from his day came up with. I don’t advocate using chiropractic as only treating back pain. I think it should be used for all aspects of the neuromusculoskeleton. It would be great if we all could survive with a cash practice, but that is no longer a reality in this day and age of managed care. The patients of the day are smarter than most give credit to and they can tell if you are just giving them a "snowjob" to help line your own pockets. The supposed "lies and misinformations" that you mention are all backed up by research and many of BJ’s theories have now been refuted with new research, because of the advancement of new techniques. BJ was a good man. He strongly believed in his cause and we must all thank him for helping chiropractic survive. But, he was also a wonderful dictator and businessman. I’m sure you remember how he used to change his techniques and you were considered a "mixer" if you weren’t doing what he was doing. He also managed to make a ton of money by leasing his neurocalometer to his colleagues. It is time we start being responsible healthcare deliverers and stop following the dogmatic views of one person. Brad Olson Chiropractic Intern
Response:
What "helped our profession survive the first 100 years" had nothing to do with what the "mixer" schools teach. Dr. B.J. Palmer took this profession from one patient (Harvey Lillard), to the largest non drug healing profession in the world. He took the scientific method to the most extreme degreee. If chiropractors and chiropractic students would read the research that Dr. Palmer conducted and did not listen to the lies and misinformation that is being told in our "schools" then our profession could move forward. It is time to read the volumes of books and research that Dr. Palmer published. Why do you want to live a boring & wasted life thinking Chiropractic is only good for back pain? Did Harvey Lillard get his hearing back or not? Have I seen more than back pain patients get well in my office? Yes. If you want to get the same results as B.J., all you have to do is the same things that he did. The procedures that Dr. Palmer was using at his pinnacle of getting the highest % of the worst of the worst cases is barely taught in any of the chiropractic schols. ***** What most students and D.C.s confuse with "modern chiropractic" is pre 1924 chiropractic. And that which seems limited to ignorant eyes is what he used exclusively in his research years.****** Before we can ever dream of moving forward, we first must get back on track. We have to get our skills and results back to what B.J. was accomplishing. Then, when we have seen what he saw we can thrive not just survive the next 100 years. All of the hard work in school was worth it when I reflect back on all of the "miracles" I see daily in my office. Specifically, J.J. Levine, D.C. "There is a principle which is a bar against information which is proof against all argument and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance. That principle is condemnation before investigation." Spencer – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->x-no-archive: yes >>Before you go to a "mixer" school that has nothing to do with Chiropractic, >>I suggest you start reading some of the 40 volumes of books that Dr. B.J. >>Palmer (The Developer of Chiropractic) wrote. I suggest that you pay close >>attention to volume 18 (THE SUBLUXATION SPECIFIC, THE ADJUSTMENT SPECIFIC). >>If you want to do many "treatments" become a D.O. or an M.D. If you want >>to correct CAUSES then learn what Dr. B.J. Palmer taught. He got the worst of >>the worst cases well. Some of these people included Dr. Mayo’s wife >>(of the Mayo clinic). In my facility I have gone through extreme measures >>to try and duplicate that which Dr. Palmer did in his world renowned research >>clinic. >>I hope you really think about what I have said. I honestly believe it will >>save you years of frustration. Please view http://www.BrainStemDr.com for >>more information. > These views are based on a "straight" chiropractic philosophy. >And it is typical of how less than 15% of all D.C.’s practice. The >other 85% are much more willing to embrace sound scientific >principals. > If it is physiologically sound, then IMO, it is legit >chiropractic. I am not interested in holding onto any of the mysticism >of the old days. That’s the stuff that got chiropractic into hot water >in the first place. >Backcrkr > I fully agree with Backcrkr. A now small portion of our > profession refuses to view what we have learned with valid scientific > research and holds on to the dogmatic views that helped our profession > survive 100 years ago. > Brad Olson > Chiropractic Intern
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >x-no-archive: yes >Before you go to a "mixer" school that has nothing to do with Chiropractic, >I suggest you start reading some of the 40 volumes of books that Dr. B.J. >Palmer (The Developer of Chiropractic) wrote. I suggest that you pay close >attention to volume 18 (THE SUBLUXATION SPECIFIC, THE ADJUSTMENT SPECIFIC). >If you want to do many "treatments" become a D.O. or an M.D. If you want >to correct CAUSES then learn what Dr. B.J. Palmer taught. He got the worst of >the worst cases well. Some of these people included Dr. Mayo’s wife >(of the Mayo clinic). In my facility I have gone through extreme measures >to try and duplicate that which Dr. Palmer did in his world renowned research >clinic. >I hope you really think about what I have said. I honestly believe it will >save you years of frustration. Please view http://www.BrainStemDr.com for >more information. > These views are based on a "straight" chiropractic philosophy. >And it is typical of how less than 15% of all D.C.’s practice. The >other 85% are much more willing to embrace sound scientific >principals. > If it is physiologically sound, then IMO, it is legit >chiropractic. I am not interested in holding onto any of the mysticism >of the old days. That’s the stuff that got chiropractic into hot water >in the first place. >Backcrkr
I fully agree with Backcrkr. A now small portion of our profession refuses to view what we have learned with valid scientific research and holds on to the dogmatic views that helped our profession survive 100 years ago. Brad Olson Chiropractic Intern
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I am considering going to a chiropractic school. I live in Michigan and >want<BR> >to find out what is the best chiropractic school out there. I am >seriously<BR> >considering National College of Chiropractic in Illinois. > I thought seriously about chiropractic school myself a couple of years ago. I > think that Palmer College gets all around high marks, though I certainly know > good practitioners from other schools. Part of your education is the school, > part of it is the ongoing training you’re willing to get on weekends, etc. > I would avoid schools that think chiropractic is the single magic bullet for > everything. Hopefully there’s not many of those around anymore. "Straight" > schools–like Life College, if I remember correctly– have that perspective; > most schools are "mixers" with the perspective that chiropractic has it’s place > in medicine, as do other disciplines. > Good luck.
Before you go to a "mixer" school that has nothing to do with Chiropractic, I suggest you start reading some of the 40 volumes of books that Dr. B.J. Palmer (The Developer of Chiropractic) wrote. I suggest that you pay close attention to volume 18 (THE SUBLUXATION SPECIFIC, THE ADJUSTMENT SPECIFIC). If you want to do many "treatments" become a D.O. or an M.D. If you want to correct CAUSES then learn what Dr. B.J. Palmer taught. He got the worst of the worst cases well. Some of these people included Dr. Mayo’s wife (of the Mayo clinic). In my facility I have gone through extreme measures to try and duplicate that which Dr. Palmer did in his world renowned research clinic. I hope you really think about what I have said. I honestly believe it will save you years of frustration. Please view http://www.BrainStemDr.com for more information.
Response:
I need your help! I am considering going to a chiropractic school. I live in Michigan and want to find out what is the best chiropractic school out there. I am seriously considering National College of Chiropractic in Illinois. If anyone has any advice about chiropractic education, chiropractic schools or just want to share their thoughts about chiropractic, please reply or
Response:
Why freeze your behind…go to a Florida Chiropractic School… 
: I need your help! : I am considering going to a chiropractic school. I live in Michigan and want : to find out what is the best chiropractic school out there. I am seriously : considering National College of Chiropractic in Illinois. : If anyone has any advice about chiropractic education, chiropractic schools : or just want to share their thoughts about chiropractic, please reply or — Note the greater part of our atheists and you will see that they are athiests from a kind of rage, rage at not being able to believe that there is a God. They are the personal enemies of God. They have invested Nothingness with substance and personality, and their No-God is an Anti-God. (Miguel Unamundo in *Tragic Sense Of Life*)
Response:
>I am considering going to a chiropractic school. I live in Michigan and >want<BR> >to find out what is the best chiropractic school out there. I am >seriously<BR> >considering National College of Chiropractic in Illinois.
I thought seriously about chiropractic school myself a couple of years ago. I think that Palmer College gets all around high marks, though I certainly know good practitioners from other schools. Part of your education is the school, part of it is the ongoing training you’re willing to get on weekends, etc. I would avoid schools that think chiropractic is the single magic bullet for everything. Hopefully there’s not many of those around anymore. "Straight" schools–like Life College, if I remember correctly– have that perspective; most schools are "mixers" with the perspective that chiropractic has it’s place in medicine, as do other disciplines. Good luck.
Response:
>Why freeze your behind…go to a Florida Chiropractic School…
Maybe if there was one… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >: I need your help! >: I am considering going to a chiropractic school. I live in Michigan and want >: to find out what is the best chiropractic school out there. I am seriously >: considering National College of Chiropractic in Illinois. >: If anyone has any advice about chiropractic education, chiropractic schools >: or just want to share their thoughts about chiropractic, please reply or >– > Note the greater part of our atheists > and you will see that they are athiests > from a kind of rage, rage at not being > able to believe that there is a God. > They are the personal enemies of God. > They have invested Nothingness with > substance and personality, and their > No-God is an Anti-God. > (Miguel Unamundo in *Tragic Sense Of Life*)
Response:
I need your help!! I am considering going to a chiropractic school. I live in Michigan and want to find out what is the best chiropractic school out there. I am seriously considering National College of Chiropractic in Illinois. If anyone has any advice about chiropractic education, chiropractic schools or just want to share their thoughts about chiropractic, please email me at Look forward to hearing from you!
Response:
Well, I still take my St.J.W. and I still fell better. Sailed thru Xmas and El Nino. — to reply; drop the spam in the "address" And smile!
Response:
Hello, In Germany there was research carried out last year that showed that St.J.W is effecitive in treating mild to moderate depression. Also there is no such thing as a "cure all". So while St.J.W is effective for treating depression, it will not be sutable for all. Just as a conventional drug will not be effective for all people. >Well, I still take my St.J.W. and I still fell better. Sailed thru Xmas >and El Nino. >– >to reply; drop the spam in the "address" >And smile!
Ian Hunter Aromatherapy E-Mail Discussion Group http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hunters/index.html
Response:
AMEN. My eight month old baby has suffered for the last six. Diagnosed by the city’s leading pediatrition as asthmatic. (seconded by family doctor) A barrage of meds and breathing apparatuses that cover my dining table, prescribed two and three at a time, one after another for months. All with only one visible effect…lessened state of alertness. Two visits to a chiropractor and she’s good as new, happy and healthy. Have since met several others who have had similar experiences. So, may I suggest to those afflicted, let your own experience guide you. P.S. If you live in Ontario Canada, Please look up the government commissioned Magna report, and ask yourself who stands to lose if it’s recommendations are implemented. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Hello, my friends. >I find your discussions and comparisons of medical and chiropractic education >rather amusing. Chiropractic students bash medical students, doctors make fun >of chiropractors, and so do D.O.s (most of whom probably don’t even care that >the founders of osteophatic medicine had more philosophic similarities with >modern chiropractic then with conventional medicine). >SNIP<
Response:
>I have to report this, because it’s too funny. A good friend called last >night to say he had bought into the hoopla and started taking hypericum >(Saint John’s Warthog) for minor depression. After a week, he felt >miserable. After two, he claimed he was in the deepest depression of his >life. Finally, (bright guy that he is) he stopped taking the herb and >after about a week felt back to roughly normal, which for him is a >little depressed. He’s off to get some Prozac soon, though. >Now, I know it’s just anecdotal and all, but heck it sure *sounds* like >the stories many of you use to sell herbs. And I swear it’s true! Talk >about the risk/benefit balance with herbsa. Even SJW can *make* you >depressed, it would appear. >AF
I believe you! <g> Paradoxical effects are to be expected (I’ve heard of a few similar cases in people on SJW and other natural antidepressants – – out of millions of people who’ve used them), but judging by the mass of anecdotal and published (in medical journals) cases of worsening depression, new depression (in people with anxiety disorders, for instance), emergent suicidal ruminations and impulses, suicide attempts, or successsful suicides in people on Prozac, your friend is switching to a drug that’s even more likely to derange him (and for the average depressive no more likely to work than SJW [Prozac = tricyclics in meta- analyses of clinical trials; SJW = tricyclics (albeit at rather low dosages) in several trials; SJW's superiority to placebo is about the same as antidepressant drugs' edge over placebo in clinical trials]). For minor depression, aka dysthymia, he’d probably be better off if he first tried exercise, meditation/relaxation, cognitive/behavioural therapy, a good diet, or other antidepressant supplements like phenylalanine, tyrosine, and/or a high potency well-balanced vitamin & mineral supplement. Syd **** Syd Baumel Dealing With Depression Naturally (Keats Publishing Inc., 1995)
Response:
Hello, my friends. I find your discussions and comparisons of medical and chiropractic education rather amusing. Chiropractic students bash medical students, doctors make fun of chiropractors, and so do D.O.s (most of whom probably don’t even care that the founders of osteophatic medicine had more philosophic similarities with modern chiropractic then with conventional medicine).