Chiropractic Healthiness

Question:

I distrusted chiropractors as my dad was an MD and thought little of Well, I heard one speak about NAET treatments and sent my daughter for them. She came home not only with that but with the full chiropractic subluxation manipulation thing, and I just let her proceed.  Well she got a ton of relief from a long standing "minor" problem with her neck hurting when she turned it, etc.  Also got relief from allergies with NAET. So, I decided to go in for NAET, let him do the full chiropractic thing on me, and I also got very good results.  So much for my upbringing. Nobody cased out my assets.  Just filed my insurance for me. BL

Response:

– Dr. Roland R. Hicks Doctor of Chiropractic All good things come from above-down-inside-out Natural Alternative to Celebrex/Vioxx: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ Internet Marketing to Win: http://www.aboutimw.com/drhicks.html Nutrition Products and Information: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/welcom… fm toll free (877) 791-8686 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The paranoia is on your part.  Does anyone really get anything of > substance > from a person they do not trust.  If I did not trust a doctor I > surely would > not seek his care.  Have you heard of the placebo effect?  The > opposite is > also true.  If you think something/one cannot help you then there is > a 30% > incidence of that to be true in the absence of any treatment. > — > Dr. Roland R. Hicks > Doctor of Chiropractic > A question to you Roland- is it common in your profession to tell > a patient that there is something "serious" and not explain to the > patient what the diagnosis (although tentative) might be? Instead > just tell the patient that he/she needs to come in for treatment > on alternating days?? I’d like to think there’s some sort of > miscommunucation going on. Otherwise it sounds unprofessional.

Possibly some miscommunication? on whose part? As a professional, who was not there, I can not and would not comment on the actions of the doctor as portraited by Ellen. I can only speak as to what I do in my practice.  Since I do not have an xray machine in my office, I must send all necessary studies out to a local radiology center.  Following my history and examination, I inform my patient of my working diagnosis and schedule a follow-up appointment where I can go over the xrays with the patient and provide a full report of findings and recommendations > As an optometrist,if I told my patient I was concerned or saw > something I thought is/or may be serious I would explain fully > my findings and what I thought my diagnosis is/could be. I wouldn’t > say "come back in two days so I can start treating". Obviously > one can’t treat when one doesn’t know the diagnosis.

I agree totally with the idea of fully explaining my findings.  I noticed that Ellen was seen at 5PM and it may be due to the fact that the doctor did not feel he had time to fully explain the condition without being rushed. Many doctors offices close at 6PM.  Personally, I would have stayed late to explain if necessary.  Again, I was not there and have no idea of the situation which actually occurred. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> frank > Before you buy.

Response:

> A question to you Roland- is it common in your profession to tell > a patient that there is something "serious" and not explain to the > patient what the diagnosis (although tentative) might be?

Anecdote Alert! In March, during a screening at a health show, I had a chiropractor (from Vitko Chiropractic in Toronto) inform me that I had (and I quote) a "serious" problem at C5-C6. He determined this using a thermal probe type device attached to a PC.  Of course, I was offered a full free evaluation at the clinic to work up the problem.   Is "serious" a DC buzz word?  To his credit, at least he identified the problem. It seems quite strange that a person would detect a "serious" problem and not inform the patient of the diagnosis! —- Kirk Kolas Ontario Veterinary College Class of 2002

Response:

Ellen: I like your story and especially your self-awareness and your awareness of the dynamics involved with the visit. I remember being very apprehensive the first time I went to a chiropractor, but my visit went very well and I received relief for my back pain. That being said, I would flee that chiropractor and his clinic ASAP. He is not hitting on you, but rather your checkbook.  Dr. Frank’s take on the diagnosis expectation rings very true.  There are  scads of other chiropractors out there, most of which also offer a free consultation initially. The majority will not case out your assets, though there tends to be a disturbing emphasis on payment issues with chiropractors. Find another one and do send us a report. Before you buy.

Response:

> The paranoia is on your part.  Does anyone really get anything of substance > from a person they do not trust.  If I did not trust a doctor I surely would > not seek his care.  Have you heard of the placebo effect?  The opposite is > also true.  If you think something/one cannot help you then there is a 30% > incidence of that to be true in the absence of any treatment. > — > Dr. Roland R. Hicks > Doctor of Chiropractic

A question to you Roland- is it common in your profession to tell a patient that there is something "serious" and not explain to the patient what the diagnosis (although tentative) might be? Instead just tell the patient that he/she needs to come in for treatment on alternating days?? I’d like to think there’s some sort of miscommunucation going on. Otherwise it sounds unprofessional. As an optometrist,if I told my patient I was concerned or saw something I thought is/or may be serious I would explain fully my findings and what I thought my diagnosis is/could be. I wouldn’t say "come back in two days so I can start treating". Obviously one can’t treat when one doesn’t know the diagnosis. frank Before you buy.

Response:

The paranoia is on your part.  Does anyone really get anything of substance from a person they do not trust.  If I did not trust a doctor I surely would not seek his care.  Have you heard of the placebo effect?  The opposite is also true.  If you think something/one cannot help you then there is a 30% incidence of that to be true in the absence of any treatment. — Dr. Roland R. Hicks Doctor of Chiropractic All good things come from above-down-inside-out Natural Alternative to Celebrex/Vioxx: http://drhicks.joint-pain.com/ Internet Marketing to Win: http://www.aboutimw.com/drhicks.html Nutrition Products and Information: http://freelife.com/Sites/drhicks/redir.cfm?page=/info/welcome/welcom… fm toll free (877) 791-8686

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Just received a call from the office of the chiropractor that examined me > yesterday. I was asked if I could come in this afternoon instead of Monday – > his officegirl said "On reviewing his notes from yesterday’s examination he > thought of something that needs to be checked." I demurred. > Is he trying to accelerate his revenue stream? Is he hitting on me? Since my > name is really Ellen, does he read this newsgroup?

Response:

Just received a call from the office of the chiropractor that examined me yesterday. I was asked if I could come in this afternoon instead of Monday – his officegirl said "On reviewing his notes from yesterday’s examination he thought of something that needs to be checked." I demurred. Is he trying to accelerate his revenue stream? Is he hitting on me? Since my name is really Ellen, does he read this newsgroup?

Response:

> Dr X then said the following, and this is close to verbatim: > "Your timing is excellent. You owe a good lunch to the friend that referred > you.Your problem would have gotten considerably worse if you hadn’t sought > intervention now. We’ll prevent some serious issues if we start immediately." > He never used the term "subluxation," and would not give me a diagnosis before > another visit.

I don’t know why he wouldn’t have give you at least a tentative diagnosis for your "serious" problem. Even if he didn’t have all the tests to confirm or rule-out his diagnosis it seems a little odd how it was presented. I would never tell one of patients that he/she had something serious and not elaborate at least on my suspicions (ie. glaucoma). > One of the women in the office came outside with me with cigarettes & lighter > in her hand, and saw me getting into a late-model Mercedes. She commented, > "nice car." I drove away and watched in the mirror, to see her re-enter without > lighting up, as though the only reason she came outside was to see what I was > driving. Paranoia?

Low tech. Most offices use monitors to scope out the patient and the vehicle.  ;) frank Before you buy.

Response:

It was a pleasant surprise! I was ready to become self-righteously indignant, but cannot. Here’s what happened: Arrived at 5pm, finished filling out the customary form at 5:10 (referred by an unnamed friend), was seen at 5:15, left at 5:55pm. Bright, modern, ground-floor office with two office staff and two chiropractors. Each was between 40 and 50, and "looked professional" (whatever that means) in white jackets, etc. Not one plastic spine or picture of one in the waiting room. I was told that because it was a "first visit," Dr. X would give me a longer than normal appointment. I tried to come across as sincere but uninformed, making my first visit to a chiropractor. His interview took ~10 minutes. He went over my health and work history, asked about my family, diet, and my perception of the problem, which I described as occasional annoying low back pain. The next ~20 minutes he watched me walk, stand, move, checked range of motion of my limbs, checked legs and grip for strength, spent some time with hands on my back, but NO X-RAY (?). His partner came in for a brief look at me, and they stepped outside the examining room for a minute. Did not check heart rate or blood pressure, did not ask about medications being taken, and did not discuss exercise. Though he had the form in his hand, and it indicated redundant insurance coverage, the next few minutes had only to do with our insurance and financial condition (several very leading questions regarding husband’s profession, my company, etc.). Dr X then said the following, and this is close to verbatim: "Your timing is excellent. You owe a good lunch to the friend that referred you.Your problem would have gotten considerably worse if you hadn’t sought intervention now. We’ll prevent some serious issues if we start immediately." He never used the term "subluxation," and would not give me a diagnosis before another visit. He then suggested that I make three appointments, a couple of days apart. I paid the $70 bill as I left, and was told that the office would handle the insurance claim and see that I was reimbursed. I set up appointments for Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. One of the women in the office came outside with me with cigarettes & lighter in her hand, and saw me getting into a late-model Mercedes. She commented, "nice car." I drove away and watched in the mirror, to see her re-enter without lighting up, as though the only reason she came outside was to see what I was driving. Paranoia? Conclusion: It’s too early to reach a conclusion. I’ll go back. I’m hypersensitive and was ready to start screaming "fraud," but there were no red flags, and the probing of our financial capacity was the only pink one.

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