Chiropractic Healthiness

Question:

David’s comment on the many who believe is reason not to dismiss. Sadly this argument is used all too often.  And it is a false argument. By such logic, astrology and dowsing would be accepted as having a basis in reality. Probably one paraphrased quotation from an older book on Dowsing by Ray Hyman summarizes it best:     "If 50 million Frenchman believe a foolish thing—it is still a foolish thing." Voting by numbers counts only in politics, but never in Science. Mahl Wagner – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > My opinion is that, never having experienced homeopathy, nor studied any > research on it, homeopathy comes under the ‘unlikely’ category in my > mind.  But I hesitate to dismiss anything that so many other people > believe in. > Dave, ICQ# 64815562 > www.deep-trance.com

Response:

Yes, I did.  Boy!  Did that smart! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’m sorry that the others on this site choose to harass you with their smart >alec suggestions. > Perhaps you might forgive them when you realise that the original post > was in fact a spammer plugging their website.  I doubt whether this > Rachel even exists. > Dave, ICQ# 64815562 > www.deep-trance.com

Response:

I’m with you, Jan.  In fact, I’m going next week. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> The feeling? Please explain that Henry. Have you been to a chiropractor? >Ever >> had your back or neck out of place? >Oh please, Jan, don’t embarrass yourself. >You’re a nice person who means only well, but READ THE HISTORY. > Embarrass myself, not hardly, the chiropractor has helped me many times. > What history? > Jan >Henry >Remove the OBVIOUS

Response:

> Or is the only reason you hold this opinion because certain others do?

Check deja — look back and you’ll see that personal experience is at least part of the basis of my opinion on chiropractic. As for iridology and certain other pseudosciences, I have a reasonable background — including reviews of data published here — upon which to base an opinion. You may share it or not. But you’ve drifted from the question regarding the use of homeopathy for depression. Presumably you have an opinion? Henry Remove the OBVIOUS

Response:

>Check deja — look back and you’ll see that personal experience is at least part of the >basis of my opinion on chiropractic.

Personal experience is fine.  But you shouldn’t expect it to be any more objectively valid than anyone else’s personal experience. >As for iridology and certain other pseudosciences, I >have a reasonable background — including reviews of data published here — upon which to >base an opinion. You may share it or not.

My background is mostly in Neuro-linguistic Programming.  I work as a Personal Change Consultant using NLP, hypnosis and a few other things that I have developed. >But you’ve drifted from the question regarding the use of homeopathy for depression. >Presumably you have an opinion?

My opinion is that, never having experienced homeopathy, nor studied any research on it, homeopathy comes under the ‘unlikely’ category in my mind.  But I hesitate to dismiss anything that so many other people believe in. Dave, ICQ# 64815562 www.deep-trance.com

Response:

>I’m sorry that the others on this site choose to harass you with their smart >alec suggestions.

Perhaps you might forgive them when you realise that the original post was in fact a spammer plugging their website.  I doubt whether this Rachel even exists. Dave, ICQ# 64815562 www.deep-trance.com

Response:

> Chiropractors on the other hand.. how do you set up a chiropractor > placebo?

My view, shared by many physicians and investigators is that nearly all of chiropractic is a placebo… > Besides there is a ton of anecdotal evidence about > chiropractic practices and a few observer blinded studies showing > significant benefits.

There’s plenty of solid evidence that ANY attention generates the placebo effect, even the wrong attention from physicians. > What is definitely not proven is your opinion that any relief resulting > from help from iridologists and chiropractors is based on placebo > effects.

But it IS my opinion. Of physicians, insurance companies, actuaries, and researchers OUTSIDE the iridology and chiropractic (and, for that matter, homeopathy) "industries," a far higher percentage share that opinion than differ with it. Henry Remove the OBVIOUS

Response:

>> Chiropractors on the other hand.. how do you set up a chiropractor > placebo? >My view, shared by many physicians and investigators is that nearly all of >chiropractic is a placebo…

Well, you know, until very recently, most physicians denied that the mind could have any effect on the body. > Besides there is a ton of anecdotal evidence about > chiropractic practices and a few observer blinded studies showing > significant benefits. >There’s plenty of solid evidence that ANY attention generates the placebo effect, even >the wrong attention from physicians.

Indeed. > What is definitely not proven is your opinion that any relief resulting > from help from iridologists and chiropractors is based on placebo > effects. >But it IS my opinion.

So it’s your opinion.  If you want it to mean anything to anyone else you’ll have to back it up with evidence. >Of physicians, insurance companies, actuaries, and researchers OUTSIDE the iridology >and chiropractic (and, for that matter, homeopathy) "industries," a far higher >percentage share that opinion than differ with it.

The first three groups are not renowned for having open minds. Or is the only reason you hold this opinion because certain others do? Dave, ICQ# 64815562 www.deep-trance.com

Response:

> The feeling? Please explain that Henry. Have you been to a chiropractor? Ever > had your back or neck out of place?

Oh please, Jan, don’t embarrass yourself. You’re a nice person who means only well, but READ THE HISTORY. Henry Remove the OBVIOUS

Response:

>> The feeling? Please explain that Henry. Have you been to a chiropractor? >Ever > had your back or neck out of place? >Oh please, Jan, don’t embarrass yourself. >You’re a nice person who means only well, but READ THE HISTORY.

Embarrass myself, not hardly, the chiropractor has helped me many times. What history? Jan – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Henry >Remove the OBVIOUS

Response:

>A recent  report in the journal Psychosomatic Medicine concluded that there >is a significant amount of evidence for the use of St Johns Wort in >depression, Gingko biloba for dementia, kava for anxiety and valerian for >insomnia. Also some evidence for the use (in conjunction with anti >depressents) of folate, tryptophan and phenylalanine. >The use of carefully monitored natural remedies is becoming more accepted >generally but advice should be sought from qualified professionals. >There are other reports about drug-herb preparation inrteractions and much >more debate needs to occur so that the benefits of herbal remedies can be >utilised more widely but safely.

This doesn’t answer the original question.  None of the remedies you mention are homeopathic, at least in the "high dilution" sense that most people would mean.   — David Wright :: wright at ibnets.com :: Not a Spokesman for Anyone      These are my opinions only, but they’re almost always correct.        "If I have not seen as far as others, it is because giants                   were standing on my shoulders." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Chris Sergeant >> Hi Folkes >> Can anyone tell me about  homeopathic medicine and any success people >> have had with it.

Response:

I’m not going to badger you to death like the other posters have done. Depression is a serious thing; you are wise to see alternatives.  I receive emails several  times a week from people who have this malady, and they ask for my advice.  You’re just asking for information. As to homeopathy, keep in mind that what works for one might not always work for another.  Vitamins might work instead of homeopathy, biofeedback might work instead of vitamins–every body is different. If you would like a website by an M.D. who has written several alternative health articles on this matter, you might want to go to www.askdrweil.com.  If you want an overall summary, you might want to go to allexperts.com I’m sorry that the others on this site choose to harass you with their smart alec suggestions. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Hi Folkes > Can anyone tell me about  homeopathic medicine and any success people have > had with it. > I found a website on here that explains it all.How ever I am depressed and > have tried quite alot of the modern medicines with little success and was > wondering of anyone can shed some light into its success.I have spoken to > alot of people who have tried homeopathy and they say its brilliant if the > right remedy finder is chosen. > The site is www.e-vitamins-direct.com  and explained everything in plain > english and there was a remedy finder on there too which was easy to > understand and very informative.I have ordered some Books off there which > i have found useful.One books I ordered was Understanding Depression and > gave me an insite into my condition but I still wantt o try something > natural.I have written to the pharmacist who runs this site and he tells me > that there are lot of things I can try which will help.He was most > helpful.He told me that choosing the right remedy is the key and he has had > good success in helping people like my self. > I am still not still decided .He asked me to fill out one of his online > consulation forms to give him a better understanding of my condition and he > replied with a full list of things that I can do.But Id like to know more.He > sounded like he knew what he was talking about.I think I am at a stage where > I am willing to try anything and I am going to give it a go.If it works I > will come back and let you all know. > I am 47 My depression started about 12 years ago after the birth of my baby > and have tried prozac and other drugs to help. > Look forward to hearing from you soon. > Rachel

Response:

>> >As chiropractors, iridologists, and other pseudoscientific comfort-givers have > >proven many times, that feeling is often enough to produce the impression of > >relief. > Of course, your opinion is based on thousands of time-proven scientific > studies. >You’re right! Those pseudoscientific comfort-givers have NOT proven their case.

Iridology seems like it would be simple enough to test, photographs of irises with follow ups on the report of the iridologists.  Here’s one study that shows a lack of effectiveness: http://130.14.32.49/cgi-bin/VERSION_A/IGM-client?1235+records+1 OTOH, I have looked into iridology myself and what I have tested I have found to be extremely accurate. Chiropractors on the other hand.. how do you set up a chiropractor placebo?  Besides there is a ton of anecdotal evidence about chiropractic practices and a few observer blinded studies showing significant benefits. What is definitely not proven is your opinion that any relief resulting from help from iridologists and chiropractors is based on placebo effects.  Therefore you ridiculed yourself with the same brush you tarred these "pseudoscientists". Dave, ICQ# 64815562 www.deep-trance.com

Response:

Try MrDiet.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Folkes > Can anyone tell me about  homeopathic medicine and any success people have > had with it. > I found a website on here that explains it all.How ever I am depressed and > have tried quite alot of the modern medicines with little success and was > wondering of anyone can shed some light into its success.I have spoken to > alot of people who have tried homeopathy and they say its brilliant if the > right remedy finder is chosen. > The site is www.e-vitamins-direct.com  and explained everything in plain > english and there was a remedy finder on there too which was easy to > understand and very informative.I have ordered some Books off there which > i have found useful.One books I ordered was Understanding Depression and > gave me an insite into my condition but I still wantt o try something > natural.I have written to the pharmacist who runs this site and he tells me > that there are lot of things I can try which will help.He was most > helpful.He told me that choosing the right remedy is the key and he has had > good success in helping people like my self. > I am still not still decided .He asked me to fill out one of his online > consulation forms to give him a better understanding of my condition and he > replied with a full list of things that I can do.But Id like to know more.He > sounded like he knew what he was talking about.I think I am at a stage where > I am willing to try anything and I am going to give it a go.If it works I > will come back and let you all know. > I am 47 My depression started about 12 years ago after the birth of my baby > and have tried prozac and other drugs to help. > Look forward to hearing from you soon. > Rachel

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Folkes > Can anyone tell me about  homeopathic medicine and any success people have > had with it. > I found a website on here that explains it all.How ever I am depressed and > have tried quite alot of the modern medicines with little success and was > wondering of anyone can shed some light into its success.I have spoken to > alot of people who have tried homeopathy and they say its brilliant if the > right remedy finder is chosen. > The site is www.e-vitamins-direct.com  and explained everything in plain > english and there was a remedy finder on there too which was easy to > understand and very informative.I have ordered some Books off there which > i have found useful.One books I ordered was Understanding Depression and > gave me an insite into my condition but I still wantt o try something > natural.I have written to the pharmacist who runs this site and he tells me > that there are lot of things I can try which will help.He was most > helpful.He told me that choosing the right remedy is the key and he has had > good success in helping people like my self. > I am still not still decided .He asked me to fill out one of his online > consulation forms to give him a better understanding of my condition and he > replied with a full list of things that I can do.But Id like to know more.He > sounded like he knew what he was talking about.I think I am at a stage where > I am willing to try anything and I am going to give it a go.If it works I > will come back and let you all know. > I am 47 My depression started about 12 years ago after the birth of my baby > and have tried prozac and other drugs to help. > Look forward to hearing from you soon. > Rachel

Dear Rachel, Yes I had experience with homeopathic medicine. They were described by a doctor ( a real one ) They did not help me at all ! I spend the last 6 years trying everything,besides taking the chemical medicine. I am now taking them for 5 months and I feel a lot better. This is not to say you should not try it ! Take care off yourself and do as you see fit. But I would really suggest to you to go to a * reallife * doctor and not one in cyber. Greetings Anna – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –

Response:

> >As chiropractors, iridologists, and other pseudoscientific comfort-givers have >proven many times, that feeling is often enough to produce the impression of >relief. > Of course, your opinion is based on thousands of time-proven scientific > studies.

You’re right! Those pseudoscientific comfort-givers have NOT proven their case. Apologies. Remove the OBVIOUS

Response:

>As chiropractors, iridologists, and other pseudoscientific comfort-givers have >proven many times, that feeling is often enough to produce the impression of >relief.

Of course, your opinion is based on thousands of time-proven scientific studies. Dave, ICQ# 64815562 www.deep-trance.com

Response:

> How many allopaths are >trained< in herbalism?

For millenia, medicine WAS herbalism, and with the evolution of scientific insight other things have been added. But that was NOT the question. Of all the "alternative medicine" techniques, homeopathy appears to be among the easiest to dispatch. I’ve read parts of some of the fundamental texts on the subject, as well as lay interpretations thereof, and apparently the entire approach depends upon the ability of the body to recognize and respond to a few molecules of a substance. Ricin and botulism toxin are among the most dangerous of all organic drugs, and plutonium is unquestionably the most deadly of all the inorganic ones. In both cases, to achieve even a symptom requires far, far more molecules than are specified in homeopathy. So for homeopathy to work on depression requires that the patient become convinced that something positive is happening.  As chiropractors, iridologists, and other pseudoscientific comfort-givers have proven many times, that feeling is often enough to produce the impression of relief. Henry Remove the OBVIOUS

Response:

>As >chiropractors, iridologists, and other pseudoscientific comfort-givers have >proven many times, that feeling is often enough to produce the impression of >relief.

Proved many times? Please show us the proof.. The feeling? Please explain that Henry. Have you been to a chiropractor? Ever had your back or neck out of place? Jan

Response:

> I don’t know about that. If you’re depressed because your wife is an > evil harpy a homeopathic remedy could be to go into a store, observe > which of the female assistants is being really bad-tempered, and go > and ask her for some stupid trivial favour she is bound to refuse. If > you’re depressed because you’re not being paid enough and have serious > debts, a homeopathic remedy could be to stand over a drain and drop > some small coin into it.

I’m depressed ‘cos I’ve spent all my money on alcohol. So, as a true homeopathic remedy, I’m off to the bar for a pint… ) Rich.

Response:

Homeopathy for depression? Well, if you were counting on it to actually DO something positive, you might be depressed by the result.

Response:

> A recent  report in the journal Psychosomatic Medicine concluded that there > is a significant amount of evidence for the use of St Johns Wort in > depression, Gingko biloba for dementia, kava for anxiety and valerian for > insomnia. Also some evidence for the use (in conjunction with anti > depressents) of folate, tryptophan and phenylalanine. > The use of carefully monitored natural remedies is becoming more accepted > generally but advice should be sought from qualified professionals.

Mainly because so many people are going to ingest "natural remedies" no matter what allopaths say – so the latter want a piece of the action, after decades of claiming that they were nothing but quackery or worse. How many allopaths are >trained< in herbalism? What exactly is their "advice" worth? > There are other reports about drug-herb preparation inrteractions and much > more debate needs to occur so that the benefits of herbal remedies can be > utilised more widely but safely.

"There are reports"…? O.K., what "reports"?

Response:

A recent  report in the journal Psychosomatic Medicine concluded that there is a significant amount of evidence for the use of St Johns Wort in depression, Gingko biloba for dementia, kava for anxiety and valerian for insomnia. Also some evidence for the use (in conjunction with anti depressents) of folate, tryptophan and phenylalanine. The use of carefully monitored natural remedies is becoming more accepted generally but advice should be sought from qualified professionals. There are other reports about drug-herb preparation inrteractions and much more debate needs to occur so that the benefits of herbal remedies can be utilised more widely but safely. Chris Sergeant – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Folkes > Can anyone tell me about  homeopathic medicine and any success people have > had with it.

Response:

> Hi Folkes > Can anyone tell me about  homeopathic medicine and any success people have > had with it.

Yeah. what you do is you take the thing that has made you ill, in this case either an ungovernable external set of events or situation, or a neurochemical dysfuntion, then you water it down. You water it down so much that there’s only one part in a billion left. something which is quite difficult with an external influence such as a crap home life. Now, the "memory" of the original thing that made you ill in the first place will somehow jiggle about with you and make you better. — Trance, house and bigbeat at http://www.mp3.com/counttofour "The more he looked inside the more Piglet wasn’t there."

Response:

Hi Folkes Can anyone tell me about  homeopathic medicine and any success people have had with it. I found a website on here that explains it all.How ever I am depressed and have tried quite alot of the modern medicines with little success and was wondering of anyone can shed some light into its success.I have spoken to alot of people who have tried homeopathy and they say its brilliant if the right remedy finder is chosen. The site is www.e-vitamins-direct.com  and explained everything in plain english and there was a remedy finder on there too which was easy to understand and very informative.I have ordered some Books off there which i have found useful.One books I ordered was Understanding Depression and gave me an insite into my condition but I still wantt o try something natural.I have written to the pharmacist who runs this site and he tells me that there are lot of things I can try which will help.He was most helpful.He told me that choosing the right remedy is the key and he has had good success in helping people like my self. I am still not still decided .He asked me to fill out one of his online consulation forms to give him a better understanding of my condition and he replied with a full list of things that I can do.But Id like to know more.He sounded like he knew what he was talking about.I think I am at a stage where I am willing to try anything and I am going to give it a go.If it works I will come back and let you all know. I am 47 My depression started about 12 years ago after the birth of my baby and have tried prozac and other drugs to help. Look forward to hearing from you soon. Rachel

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