Chiropractic Healthiness

Question:

After reading dozens of arguments such as this thread, I decided to go and *have* a session of colonic hydrotherapy, just so I could make up my own mind. Another reason I decided to go for it is that an especially high-stress work situation had contributed to make me painfully constipated. I ended up having two sessions in two weeks.  Although I wouldn’t claim they changed my life, they seem to have helped to put my digestion back in order.  I can honestly say I felt better afterwards, especially after the second one.  And I really *was* amazed to see the amount of hardened feces that were loosened up and removed by the treatment. I don’t plan to get religious about colonics – I haven’t scheduled any more – but I do think that they can be useful in some situations.  How about this:  everyone with an opinion on these, pro or con, have *one* session of colonic irrigation before posting again?  At least everyone will have a better idea of what they’re on about. (I’m sure a few of you will say "well, how about we all try tongue of newt and eye of toad?" or something along that line – try to hold off with the comparisions of apples and oranges, okay?) Veruca

Response:

In article – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This may come as a shock to you Rich, but autopsies have been performed that > did show that the colon was loaded with gunk glued to the walls.  The exact > figures I fail to recall accurately, but I think they weighed 10x more than > normal, whatever that was.  In fact the X-rays of living people that I have in > books, show how badly distorted they were before the colonic and almost > normalised following treatment. > OK Liz,  where are *your* references?  It does indeed "come as  ashock to > me" that some vague story you heard from some quack friend could be > presented as God’s truth without corroboration.

I thought I gave the references, [Bernard Jensen’s Nature Has a Remedy}, but perhaps something that was performed in the 60’s and 70’s, as I understand it, were not written up in any scientific journal.  In fact, it is quite probably, that like the Lancet and other so-called "scientific" papers and journals, the information was refused as has happen a number of times to genuine submissions.  I wonder why!  Is it that they might have not suited the politics of the time.  An example is the work by Dr. A. Kalakorinos in SIDS, back in the ?’70’s. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Oh but I forgot, you had another fake anecdote to spin . . . > Are you familiar with Dr. Bernard Jensen, who ran a health ranch in Hidden > Valley for many years?  He came out to Australia many years ago now and showed > slides to practitioners about this very subject.  He also spoke of cases where > veryhard matter was "given birth" to, was his expression, because it must have > been so painful for the luckless owner.  He has written many books on health > and iridology which he uses to demonstrate his ability to read the iris and > treat the patient according to his needs, with whatever type of treatment was > appropriate and showed the change in the iris accordingly. > How scientific do you need to be.  He repeated these treatments over and over > again, time after time, with no restrictions as to who could observe if they > OK, smarty, where did he publish the results in the peer-reviewed > literature?  THAT’s how scientific you need to be. Why? > I suspect you have a lot of toxins yourself, perhaps your temper would improve > if you had removal of "it" via the colon yourself?  It is well known that > people who are argumentative and "shitty" have liver problems.  Ask any > Chinese herbalist.  Oh but I forgot, it has not been scientifically proven > yet, it is only 5,000 years old and believed in by a whole nation of idiots I > presume. > A nation which is rapidly embracing modern Western medicine.  They are > installing CT-scanners all over China as we speak.  It’s gullible westerns > who look only to the ancient past and mystical hoohaa.

Do you watch a lot of westerns?!! > The real idiots are in the west, busy Orientalizing the Chinese. > AF > Tut tut Aaron, check your facts. Cheers, Liz.

Response:

> >This may come as a shock to you Rich, but autopsies have been performed that >did show that the colon was loaded with gunk glued to the walls. > I have PERSONALLY assisted on dozens of autopsies and have NEVER EVER > found ANYTHING glued to the walls.

What, the autopsies that Bernard Jensen was involved in?  Which autopsies, where, and when? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->  The exact >figures I fail to recall accurately, but I think they weighed 10x more than >normal, whatever that was.  In fact the X-rays of living people that I have in >books, show how badly distorted they were before the colonic and almost >normalised following treatment. > Please give us the references from credible scientific journals or > books that supports your contention. Learn from you TCM teacher and > stop judging from the outside. Or are you NOW going to claim that YOU > have witnessed autopsies showing what you claim. >A   He has written many books on health >and iridology which he uses to demonstrate his ability to read the iris and >treat the patient according to his needs, with whatever type of treatment was >appropriate and showed the change in the iris accordingly. > Please give us the references about the validity of iridology. Please > quote from peer reviewed scientific journals. You need to ask yourself > why you CHOOSE to believe in these alternative practices.

Just because you choose NOT to believe in them doesn NOT invalidate them Rich. In fact, the more you oppose them, the more people become interested, so keep up the good work. >How scientific do you need to be.  He repeated these treatments over and over >again, time after time, with no restrictions as to who could observe if they >wished to.

On the contrary, I see you attacking Posts constantly about a subject you know nothing.  Surely, you, even you, must realise that it is only a fool who would criticise a subject outside of his own expertise.  I think it was George Bernard Shaw who said that "before you criticise something, study it." – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Obviously you have no clue how scientific studies work. Do some > reading before you continue to make a fool of yourself. >I suspect you have a lot of toxins yourself, perhaps your temper would improve >if you had removal of "it" via the colon yourself?  It is well known that >people who are argumentative and "shitty" have liver problems.  Ask any >Chinese herbalist.  Oh but I forgot, it has not been scientifically proven >yet, it is only 5,000 years old and believed in by a whole nation of idiots I >presume. > See how many of these learned Chinese individuals STILL believe this > stuff. We used to believe that the world was flat. Apparently YOU > still do. Just because something has been believed for many years does > not make it true.  Lots of people believe that Jesus Christ is their > lord and savior. Does THAT make it true????? There is a difference > between religion and science. Perhaps you are confused. If you CHOOSE > to believe a certain alternative health religion that is your right. > But if you think that any of the drivel that you CLAIM has been proven > you are quite wrong. > Ever GO to China Liz. Did not think so. Those who continue to > primarily use herbal medicines are the poor and uneducated. You might > fit right in.

Well, here you are, pontificating about something you know pathetically nothing about.  As my information comes directly out of the mouth of a practising Chinese medicine professor at our University, perhaps you would care to take him on and tell him how stupid he is going to China learning about his subject?  I am sure he will be most impressed. > Aloha, > Rich > Your attempts at ridicule do you no service at all and only give me and

others "grist for the mill". Cheers, Liz. > Far better to be uncertain > Than to be sure and be wrong > Note: Remember to remove the antispamming "NOT" in email address >  before sending me email

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> And did you notice the newest statistics on cancer released by the CDC > last week?  The first downturn (albeit small) in the US cancer rate  and > in deaths from cancer in over a decade. … > It is probably due to much better screening and testing protocols, >more widespread knowledge of initial symptoms, etc.   … >The newest statistics are very interesting.  The incidence of new reported >cases decreased very minimally, the number of deaths has not.  They said the >study on which the report was based was not searching for an explanation but >they did speculate that it could be attributable to earlier detection >practices. This is confusing, as detecting cases earlier would imply that >more, not less, cases would be reported.  It is typical of mainstream >medicine’s tendency to confuse prevention with detection, as if finding it >earlier has somehow prevented the disease.

        Your answer lies in the quote above. Research has found pre-cancerous conditions exist before the malignancy appears. Many screening tests look for these pre-cancerous conditions, allowing treatment before cancerous cells appear. The more we learn about the human genome, the more we learn about oncogenes, and the earlier we can spot genetic conditions that permit the appearance of cancerous cells. Pete. MT(ASCP), KF4VCC, brewer, parent.

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> And did you notice the newest statistics on cancer released by the CDC > last week?  The first downturn (albeit small) in the US cancer rate  and > in deaths from cancer in > over a decade.  If it turns out to be epidemiologically attributable to > the alt.health mania, I’ll eat my foot.  It is probably due to much better > screening and testing protocols, more widespread knowledge of initial > symptoms, etc.  But it is obviously due to the delayed effects of the > downturn in smoking, to improvements in diet, and to improvements in > fitness and environmental quality since the Clean Air Act of 1990, which > you can look up yourself on the EPA webpage. Scientific medicine had a big > hand in making the case for the clean air act and against smoking, because > unlike alternative medicine it is not obsessed with individual well-being > but promotes its worldview as a social cause.

The newest statistics are very interesting.  The incidence of new reported cases decreased very minimally, the number of deaths has not.  They said the study on which the report was based was not searching for an explanation but they did speculate that it could be attributable to earlier detection practices. This is confusing, as detecting cases earlier would imply that more, not less, cases would be reported.  It is typical of mainstream medicine’s tendency to confuse prevention with detection, as if finding it earlier has somehow prevented the disease. Twenty five years and trillions of dollars in research in the war on cancer and the best they can do is find it earlier. They specifically excluded better diet as contributing to the decrease in reported cases, contrary to your statement above, as they said Americans’ diets are worse than ever.

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>> See how many of these learned Chinese individuals STILL believe this > stuff. We used to believe that the world was flat. Apparently YOU > still do. Just because something has been believed for many years does > not make it true.  Lots of people believe that Jesus Christ is their > lord and savior. Does THAT make it true????? There is a difference > between religion and science. Perhaps you are confused. If you CHOOSE > to believe a certain alternative health religion that is your right. > But if you think that any of the drivel that you CLAIM has been proven > you are quite wrong. >it is probably best to keep an open mind

Absolutely! But not so open that your brains fall out:-) , for they haven’t been proven >wrong and ineffective, either.

Unfortunately it is impossible to prove something is ineffective. It is also not wise to openly embrace something that has not been demonstrated scientifically to be effective especially when there is a high likelihood that it works by placebo.  just because something hasn’t been proved >"scientifically" doesn’t mean that it isn’t effective (i.e. does that mean >that aspirin didn’t work until a scientific study proved it?).

Quite correct. However it would not have been wise to embrace aspirin as an effective therapy without the studies. There are literally thousands of different alternative remedies that are embraced by people with perhaps only a handful being truly better than placebo. The trick is to find that handful.   granted, >some "alternative" treatments may not work at all, but many probably do. >to deny this is only to hold an egocentric allopathic position, which is >somewhat unjustified considering that tcm has been around for 100X as >long.

Length of time argument holds little water with me. Much of the belief in TCM over the years is based upon faith and not scientific corrorboration. This does not mean that it is not effective but as far as I am concerned the jury is still out.   in fact, there is no wonder that the world health organization is >very supportive of tcm and other complementary therapies, and that some >sources (such as cheng, to. (1985). medicine and health care along the >silk road to china. _american journal of medicine, 78_, 3-8.) site that >tcm that integrates allopathic medical practices seems to be far more >effective than allopathic medicine alone.

I also believe that it is more effective than allopathic medicine alone but for different reasons. Alternative healing methods often require individuals to take personal responsibility for their health and the "personal touch" is also important I believe. We have much to learn about the psychologic factors in healing. I suspect alternative methods may tap into these factors such as the elusive placebo response. I also believe that herbal preparations can have a therapeutic effect often with less risk. Again the trick is to find out which ones do and for what conditions. I am in favor of clinical trials to sort out the confusion. But of course since there is little money in it (compared to pharmaceuticals) it is not likely that it will be done to a very great extent.  it is true that more research >needs to be conducted, but why bother if you have already discredited it >(judgements should be made ^after^ the research is in, not before).  best >wishes.–eg

If I have given the impression of discrediting herbals completely then let me correct that now. I am however VERY skeptical of homeopathics being anything more than placebo. HOWEVER placebo can be quite effective AND has no side effects. Aloha, Rich >no animal testing was used in the creation of this message.

Far better to be uncertain Than to be sure and be wrong Note: Remember to remove the antispamming "NOT" in email address  before sending me email

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>>This may come as a shock to you Rich, but autopsies have been performed that >did show that the colon was loaded with gunk glued to the walls. >I have PERSONALLY assisted on dozens of autopsies and have NEVER EVER >found ANYTHING glued to the walls.  

        I watched our path gross a resected cecum, with also included the cecal valve, a short run of the transverse colon, and the appendix. It was resected (i.e. surgically removed) because of tumor-like growths observed during a colonoscopy. I didn’t see any gunk, nor was there any "accumulated inorganic material" in the appendix, other than the normal fecal material present. I, too, have seen resected bowels, and assisted in an autopsy, and I have never seen gunk attached to anything. Pete. MT(ASCP), KF4VCC, brewer, parent.

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> See how many of these learned Chinese individuals STILL believe this > stuff. We used to believe that the world was flat. Apparently YOU > still do. Just because something has been believed for many years does > not make it true.  Lots of people believe that Jesus Christ is their > lord and savior. Does THAT make it true????? There is a difference > between religion and science. Perhaps you are confused. If you CHOOSE > to believe a certain alternative health religion that is your right. > But if you think that any of the drivel that you CLAIM has been proven > you are quite wrong.

it is probably best to keep an open mind, for they haven’t been proven wrong and ineffective, either.  just because something hasn’t been proved "scientifically" doesn’t mean that it isn’t effective (i.e. does that mean that aspirin didn’t work until a scientific study proved it?).  granted, some "alternative" treatments may not work at all, but many probably do. to deny this is only to hold an egocentric allopathic position, which is somewhat unjustified considering that tcm has been around for 100X as long.  in fact, there is no wonder that the world health organization is very supportive of tcm and other complementary therapies, and that some sources (such as cheng, to. (1985). medicine and health care along the silk road to china. _american journal of medicine, 78_, 3-8.) site that tcm that integrates allopathic medical practices seems to be far more effective than allopathic medicine alone.  it is true that more research needs to be conducted, but why bother if you have already discredited it (judgements should be made ^after^ the research is in, not before).  best wishes.–eg no animal testing was used in the creation of this message.

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>This may come as a shock to you Rich, but autopsies have been performed that >did show that the colon was loaded with gunk glued to the walls.

I have PERSONALLY assisted on dozens of autopsies and have NEVER EVER found ANYTHING glued to the walls.    The exact >figures I fail to recall accurately, but I think they weighed 10x more than >normal, whatever that was.  In fact the X-rays of living people that I have in >books, show how badly distorted they were before the colonic and almost >normalised following treatment.

Please give us the references from credible scientific journals or books that supports your contention. Learn from you TCM teacher and stop judging from the outside. Or are you NOW going to claim that YOU have witnessed autopsies showing what you claim. >A   He has written many books on health >and iridology which he uses to demonstrate his ability to read the iris and >treat the patient according to his needs, with whatever type of treatment was >appropriate and showed the change in the iris accordingly.

Please give us the references about the validity of iridology. Please quote from peer reviewed scientific journals. You need to ask yourself why you CHOOSE to believe in these alternative practices. >How scientific do you need to be.  He repeated these treatments over and over >again, time after time, with no restrictions as to who could observe if they >wished to.

Obviously you have no clue how scientific studies work. Do some reading before you continue to make a fool of yourself. >I suspect you have a lot of toxins yourself, perhaps your temper would improve >if you had removal of "it" via the colon yourself?  It is well known that >people who are argumentative and "shitty" have liver problems.  Ask any >Chinese herbalist.  Oh but I forgot, it has not been scientifically proven >yet, it is only 5,000 years old and believed in by a whole nation of idiots I >presume.

See how many of these learned Chinese individuals STILL believe this stuff. We used to believe that the world was flat. Apparently YOU still do. Just because something has been believed for many years does not make it true.  Lots of people believe that Jesus Christ is their lord and savior. Does THAT make it true????? There is a difference between religion and science. Perhaps you are confused. If you CHOOSE to believe a certain alternative health religion that is your right. But if you think that any of the drivel that you CLAIM has been proven you are quite wrong. Ever GO to China Liz. Did not think so. Those who continue to primarily use herbal medicines are the poor and uneducated. You might fit right in. Aloha, Rich Far better to be uncertain Than to be sure and be wrong Note: Remember to remove the antispamming "NOT" in email address  before sending me email

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>>Have you considered the possibility that the major problem is >inadequate fiber that leads to the constipation that then leads to the >medical problems that you are describing. >of course i have. however, increasing the fiber intake of an elderly >person who has been abusing their digestive tract for decades will not >make a signifignat improvement.

        Try telling that to mmy grandmother’s husband. He gets enemas for blockages, but then eats his vegetables, and is clean as a whistle. Until he goes back to his low fiber diet… >ordinarily yes, but the consumption of highy processed foods are not what >the colon was designed for. ever notice how white bread sticks to the roof >of your mouth when you eat it?

        What happens in your mouth is not what happens in your intestines. I’ve never had a constipated mouth, have you? >also, it is the caecum where inorganic compounds are stored permanently. >it can only hold so much.

        Inorganic compounds such as…? Has your caecum blown up yet? Mine hasn’t; am I missing something? Pete. MT(ASCP), KF4VCC, brewer, parent.

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This may come as a shock to you Rich, but autopsies have been performed that did show that the colon was loaded with gunk glued to the walls.  The exact figures I fail to recall accurately, but I think they weighed 10x more than normal, whatever that was.  In fact the X-rays of living people that I have in books, show how badly distorted they were before the colonic and almost normalised following treatment. Are you familiar with Dr. Bernard Jensen, who ran a health ranch in Hidden Valley for many years?  He came out to Australia many years ago now and showed slides to practitioners about this very subject.  He also spoke of cases where veryhard matter was "given birth" to, was his expression, because it must have been so painful for the luckless owner.  He has written many books on health and iridology which he uses to demonstrate his ability to read the iris and treat the patient according to his needs, with whatever type of treatment was appropriate and showed the change in the iris accordingly. How scientific do you need to be.  He repeated these treatments over and over again, time after time, with no restrictions as to who could observe if they wished to. I suspect you have a lot of toxins yourself, perhaps your temper would improve if you had removal of "it" via the colon yourself?  It is well known that people who are argumentative and "shitty" have liver problems.  Ask any Chinese herbalist.  Oh but I forgot, it has not been scientifically proven yet, it is only 5,000 years old and believed in by a whole nation of idiots I presume. Cheers, Liz. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>One need >>not invoke some toxin theory and the need for cleansing the colon the >>explain the problem. The colon itself is self cleansing. >ordinarily yes, but the consumption of highy processed foods are not what >the colon was designed for. ever notice how white bread sticks to the roof >of your mouth when you eat it? > I realize that you think that since white bread sticks to the roof of > your mouth that it ALSO sticks to the lining of the intestine. Have > you considered that there are factors which make this scenario quite > unlikely. Bread goes through a digestive process as it passes through > the GI tract. The colon lining is composed of epithelial cells which > turn over quite rapidly preventing anything from  being stuck to the > walls. Autopsy and surgical examination of intestines has not revealed > anything "stuck" to intestinal walls. > However if you want to believe the story promulgated by those who want > to profit from selling you remedies to cleanse your colon wall then go > right ahead.  Personally I think the whole idea is nonsense. >also, it is the caecum where inorganic compounds are stored permanently. >it can only hold so much. > Now where did you gather THIS pearl of wisdom. Have you considered > that your source(s) of information may not be reliable. OR do you read > something in some lay publication and then assume it is true. Please > quote ANY reputable scientific publication that confirms your story. > If you are going to invoke some kind of inorganic compound buildup I > think you need to back it up with some hard scientific data. Oh I am > sorry this is misc.health.alt where anything and everything is true. > It is just a matter of believing it. Sorry for my mistake:-) > Aloha, > Rich > PS And before you ask me to prove that there is NO inorganic buildup, > the burden of proof for this assertion is on YOU not on ME. After all > YOU were the one who claimed it. > Aloha, > Rich > Far better to be uncertain > Than to be sure and be wrong > Note: Remember to remove the antispamming "NOT" in email address >  before sending me email

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> funny how ‘many folks’ tend to think this way, yet ‘many folks’ also tend > to become chronically constipated (laxatives are best selling drugs in the > us) & go on to contract diseases like diverticulitis, pollops, & colon > rectal cancer in their old age.

How about trying a diet higher in fiber?  Constipation is caused by the typical American diet.  Exercise also helps constipation by bringing more blood into the abdominal area (better circulation).  Also plain old CHEAP mineral oil can help move an occasional sluggish bowel movement along.  Why expensive herbs or colonics?  That is no different then putting a bandaid on a skin cancer.   Attack the CAUSE of the chronic constipation and get rid of the problem altogether.  It seems you feel people should not adopt a better diet/lifestyle but just give themselves enemas and continue on the same old Road. — Carol "I intend to live forever – so far, so good".

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>so why are incidences of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, asthma, >parkinsons disease, alzheimers disease, etc on the rise? or how about the >american cancer society? that mainstream enough for you? they say that >meat causes cancer. i suppose you don’t agree with them either?

        Don’t make the mistake of assuming that more sensitive detection earlier in the disease process means that the absolute number of cases is increasing. The American Cancer Society has done much to make people aware of cancer, rather than proving some sinister existance that only alternative medicine can "cure." >ever hear of lead poisoning? familiar with how your body handles lead? >so just what is it that you think that our bodies do with inorganic compounds?

        There is probably less lead poisioning now than there was 25 years ago, before the current alternative cures were discovered. Lead is used a lot less (how often could you buy unleaded gasoline in 1973? Or lead-free household paint?) now than back then. Emission standards are much more strict, and strictly enforced now than back then. My mother used to play with mercury when she worked in a clinical lab. I work in one now, and have strict OSHA requirements and documentation to live by to dispose of a drop of spilled mercury.         Try again. You didn’t convince me the first time. >in >spite of the anxiety about air and water quality, our air is in fact much >cleaner (in major American cities) than ten years ago.

Pete. >references please. >–

MT(ASCP), KF4VCC, brewer, parent.

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>>One need >not invoke some toxin theory and the need for cleansing the colon the >explain the problem. The colon itself is self cleansing. >ordinarily yes, but the consumption of highy processed foods are not what >the colon was designed for. ever notice how white bread sticks to the roof >of your mouth when you eat it?

I realize that you think that since white bread sticks to the roof of your mouth that it ALSO sticks to the lining of the intestine. Have you considered that there are factors which make this scenario quite unlikely. Bread goes through a digestive process as it passes through the GI tract. The colon lining is composed of epithelial cells which turn over quite rapidly preventing anything from  being stuck to the walls. Autopsy and surgical examination of intestines has not revealed anything "stuck" to intestinal walls. However if you want to believe the story promulgated by those who want to profit from selling you remedies to cleanse your colon wall then go right ahead.  Personally I think the whole idea is nonsense. >also, it is the caecum where inorganic compounds are stored permanently. >it can only hold so much.

Now where did you gather THIS pearl of wisdom. Have you considered that your source(s) of information may not be reliable. OR do you read something in some lay publication and then assume it is true. Please quote ANY reputable scientific publication that confirms your story. If you are going to invoke some kind of inorganic compound buildup I think you need to back it up with some hard scientific data. Oh I am sorry this is misc.health.alt where anything and everything is true. It is just a matter of believing it. Sorry for my mistake:-) Aloha, Rich PS And before you ask me to prove that there is NO inorganic buildup, the burden of proof for this assertion is on YOU not on ME. After all YOU were the one who claimed it. Aloha, Rich Far better to be uncertain Than to be sure and be wrong Note: Remember to remove the antispamming "NOT" in email address  before sending me email

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I have been reading about some colon cleansing programs on the internet. I am curious about the added energy and possible loss of weight.  I would like to try a program that can be done with simple foods from the grocery store.  Is there such a program?  I do not want to spend too much money. What kind of recommendations do you have? Thanks MATT

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Unfortunately, I must again disagree with Aaron the Fox.  There are indeed some effective and proven cleansing, purifying and detoxification  herbs which would probably benefit Mr Brink, the origial poster.  Burdock root, Red Clover flowers, and  Dandelion root/leaf are excellent blood cleansers,   Oregon Grape Root is a good liver and blood cleanser.  Milk Thistle Seed is a powerful liver detoxifier.   Foods which have proven helpful are garlic, onions, and ginger. I don’t think colon irrigation is necessary or very helpful.  A good cleanse/detoxify program should include herbs for blood, liver and kidneys as well as the digestive tract.

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Cleanse his blood from what? Not to mention it’s all things from an herbal specialist = nonsense, he can eat a better diet to feel better and avoid constipation in the bargain.  The colon is designed by nature to keep itself "clean".  You can’t sterilize your gut. — Carol…. ***I intend to live forever – so far, so good.*** – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Foods which have proven helpful are garlic, onions, and ginger. > I don’t think colon irrigation is necessary or very helpful.  A good > cleanse/detoxify program should include herbs for blood, liver and kidneys as > well as the digestive tract.

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>>Cleanse his blood from what? Not to mention it’s all things from an herbal >specialist = nonsense, he can eat a better diet to feel better and avoid >constipation in the bargain.  The colon is designed by nature to keep >itself "clean".  You can’t sterilize your gut. >funny how ‘many folks’ tend to think this way, yet ‘many folks’ also tend >to become chronically constipated (laxatives are best selling drugs in the >us) & go on to contract diseases like diverticulitis, pollops, & colon >rectal cancer in their old age.

Have you considered the possibility that the major problem is inadequate fiber that leads to the constipation that then leads to the medical problems that you are describing. In that case the solution would be to increase fiber intake to decrease transit time in colon. Perhaps it is the length of time that the fecal matter remains in colon that determines whether or not you will have a problem. One need not invoke some toxin theory and the need for cleansing the colon the explain the problem. The colon itself is self cleansing. The trick is to get the feces moving rapidly through. Aloha, Rich Far better to be uncertain Than to be sure and be wrong Note: Remember to remove the antispamming "NOT" in email address  before sending me email

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In response to your inquiry regarding colonics, this point of view which I will present is a very interesting one.  My Mother was diagnosed many years ago for having breast cancer, and beginning this year, she went through a  series of chemotherapy treatments.  These treatments, which were supposed to delay the cancer growth, only made her body more susceptible to the disease because now, her immuimmune system was weak. She was introduced to colonics at the San Diego Optimum Health Institute. Colonics was an essential tool in removing all the chemotherapy which so poisoned her body.  At the same time, an aggressively healthy diet was put into action.  I agree  that one cannot enjoy the full benefits of colonics unless he or she is willing to change their eating habits, as prescribed by a licensed nutriotionist orbiochemist.  As far as how often she has them, it is a matter up to the individual in accordance to the professional assisting you in doing that.  I would also recommend you to do some reading about it.  You may find such books at local health food stores, or order by mail.  If you have any more q uestions, you may e-mail me at: *p.s.  A healthy diet is no good unless the "bad elements" from previous years         have not been removed out of your body.  You must start fresh.

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I thought I had posted this request earlier this week, but havent seen my original message, so will post again. I have heard various things about colon cleansing.  I was wondering if anyone had information/input/feedback on whether they find it a good practice or not.

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>I thought I had posted this request earlier this week, but havent seen my >original message, so will post again. >I have heard various things about colon cleansing.  I was wondering if anyone >had information/input/feedback on whether they find it a good practice or not.

Depends on why you want to do it.  I’ve done self colonics twice this year, but each time it was after fasting and everything had run its course.  Then I proceeded to change my diet and eat healthier.  So more or less it was an initiation into a change of life style.  Personally I plan on doing it once or twice a year as a form of maintenance.   My children have had colonics.  When my eldest was four he had a stomach flu that was causing him great distress and gas, but he wasn’t passing anything. Out of desperation we took him to the Pediatrician who said he was constipated and not to do anything.  (This child had fever, sweats, and crying from stomach pain.)  So I took him to someone to do a colonic on him.   He was not constipated but sick, a ton of mucus come out of him.  After the colonic he was fine and playing about an hour after the colonic.  I never needed to do that again, but hey it worked. My youngest child was chronically sick with bronchitis and we kept moving his heart surgery because he was never healthy enough to go through with it. Finally right before the scheduled date of his heart surgery he became sick again (this was the fifth scheduling), so out of desperation I took him in for a colonic.  The symptoms cleared up by the next day, and he had his surgery on time.  His first birthday was the day he had his surgery. So it depends on why you want to do it.  I’ve never read the books, and I have talked to various doctors on the issue.  I don’t believe it should be done often.  Just do what seems logical.

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>Uh, earth to Bob… you produce loads of mucus in your bowels every >day.  When you stop eating solid food, the volume of the feces goes >down markedly, so the mucus is a lot more visible.  A lot of the >rest of that shit is normally sloughed-off cells lining the gut, >and ordinary colonic bacteria–again, this isn’t NEW stuff which >is coming out; it’s just that the composition of the feces has >changed, and there’s a lot missing.  There’s nothing remarkable >about this.

    You are partially correct.  However, if this were totally true then why does the amount of mucus dispelled decrease over time? After about 10 days of just juice the feces starts to look more normal again, implying that the mucus was not all that normal.     I agree that a person is expelling more than just waste and toxins when he/she does this, but it IS an effective way of cleaning your body out.  You can actually get a real sense of energy out of this as I find that I get greatly invigorated after doing this for a week or so.     Of course, too bad that I was an idiot and started polluting my body again with animal products…fruit?  What is fruit? — *** Are you willing to sacrifice all that you are *** *** to keep all that you have? – G’Kar, Babylon-5 ***

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Having participated in one 7 day "juice fast"/colon cleansing, I am now TOTALLY CONVINCED that it can do wonders for most peoples health. Briefly, in response to your questions, I was amazed at what I expelled starting 1 1/2 days into the cleanse and twice a day for the next 6 days!  It convinced me that the pictures I had seen and the talk I’d heard and the books I’d read were not HOGWASH, and that the pictures in the books were real and were not rare cases. Yes there were actually mucoid linings expelled. I am glad I did the 7 day cleanse because there was no doubt what I needed to get rid of, because I knew that what was coming out wasn’t totally from my intake since it was only liquids and supplements, no solid food. The reason I did the 7 day cleanse is because I met a man who showed me through a microscope the evidence of toxins in my blood and because of what he had to say about getting rid of those The books I read and recommend are: REMOVE THE THORN AND GOD WILL HEAL by Bud Curtis (all about the latest on the 7 day method) TISSUE CLEANSING THROUGH BOWEL MANAGEMENT by Dr. Bernard Jensen (unbelievable pictures) COLON HEALTH: THE KEY TO A VIBRANT LIFE by Dr. Norman Walker (who lived to be 109 years old) I have heard about a book by Dr. Lorraine Day called CANCER DOESN’T SCARE ME ANYMORE. I plan to get this one. The GERSON INSTITUTE homepage was also convincing, even though GERSON therapy is too slow. Read their case histories. I’d love to give more details via email, but you’ll have to ask for them because I understand posts should be short.

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        >Briefly, in response to your questions, I was amazed at what I         >expelled starting 1 1/2 days into the cleanse and twice a day for         >the next 6 days!  It convinced me that the pictures I had seen         >and the talk I’d heard and the books I’d read were not HOGWASH,         >and that the pictures in the books were real and were not rare cases. Only because you didn’t know what you were looking at. Neither do the authors of these books.         >Yes there were actually mucoid linings expelled. I am glad I did         >the 7 day cleanse because there was no doubt what I needed to get         >rid of, because I knew that what was coming out wasn’t totally         >from my intake since it was only liquids and supplements, no         >solid food. Uh, earth to Bob… you produce loads of mucus in your bowels every day.  When you stop eating solid food, the volume of the feces goes down markedly, so the mucus is a lot more visible.  A lot of the rest of that shit is normally sloughed-off cells lining the gut, and ordinary colonic bacteria–again, this isn’t NEW stuff which is coming out; it’s just that the composition of the feces has changed, and there’s a lot missing.  There’s nothing remarkable about this.         >The reason I did the 7 day cleanse is because I met a man who         >showed me through a microscope the evidence of toxins in my blood         >and because of what he had to say about getting rid of those         >toxins. Oh, a chiropractor, eh? — Steve Dyer

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I am interested in the subject and was wondering if anyone who has done it could provide me with such information as: What product did you use? Were the results satisfactory? Do you feel better? Was there actually a "mucoid" lining discharged? What books if any did you read about the subject? TIA, —

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I would suggest that you call Lanny Smith with UltraLife.   1-800-323-3842.  Lanny makes the products used by Dr. William Donald Kelly.  best of luck to you, a.j. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I am interested in the subject and was wondering if anyone who has done >it could provide me with such information as: >What product did you use? >Were the results satisfactory? >Do you feel better? >Was there actually a "mucoid" lining discharged? >What books if any did you read about the subject? >TIA, >–

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >I am interested in the subject and was wondering if anyone who has done >it could provide me with such information as: >What product did you use? >Were the results satisfactory? >Do you feel better? >Was there actually a "mucoid" lining discharged? >What books if any did you read about the subject? >TIA, >–

My husband and I are currently using AM/PM Ultimate Cleanse made by Nature’s Secret.  This was recommended by a reflexologist/friend who has used various cleanses over the years.  It is a mild one that is tailored to the individual and can be used for a longer period of time than some harsher types.  We found it in our local health store. We have noticed an increase in energy level and a general overall feeling of well being.  After a few weeks you start eliminating more than you consume, but again, it’s gradual.  I’ve known people using a fasting method and some type of aloe vera juice who have had faster and more dramatic results, but we prefer the gentler route. visit us at http://www.kooltie.com and enter a free weekly drawing

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